We have a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500, quad cab, 4WD, short bed, 6-speed manual transmission, 5.9 liter HO Cummins diesel.
On the window sticker for our truck, it says 11.50 rear axle. We don't know what that means.
We do not see anywhere what our axle ratio is. On the Dodge web site, it says that ... with a 4.10 axle ratio, we can tow 12,700 lbs.
GVWR = 9000 lbs.
Payload 1842 lbs.
GAWR front/rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs
Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) - 20,000 lbs.
WE ARE LOOKING AT A 5th wheel Heartland SUNDANCE 2800RLS which has a GVWR of 11,380. Dry weight is 7975 and the HITCH weight is 1875.
We are so confused with the numbers. Does it look like we can pull this Sundance with our truck or are we over our heads?
Thanks,
Carolyn
* This post was
edited 04/27/08 04:36pm by Don & Carolyn *
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, so please wait for confirmation, but it looks like the camper hitch weight of 1875 pounds exceeds the payload capacity of 1842 pounds on your truck. So while you might be ok with the total weights, the hitch weights are too much. And that's before you load gear, water, etc. in the camper. That would push your hitch weight even higher.
I'm sure someone will chime in and knock me around if I'm wrong!
Jason, Angie, and our toddler, Sean Patrick
2008 Ameri-Lite 27BH
2007 Dodge 1500 QC Laramie, 5.7Hemi, 3.92
Equalizer hitch, Prodigy Brake Controller
While your truck pulls the total weight of the trailer, the truck carries the weight of the front end of the trailer...the hitch pin weight. You do not want to exceed any of the truck maker's weight limit recommendations.
Payload = the weight the truck can carry including the driver, passengers, and everything in the truck including weight on the bed--the hitch and front of the trailer. Without a driver and without anything loaded in your trailer you've exceeded this Dodge weight limit.
The best thing to do is to weigh your truck on a truck scale. Add weights for passengers, full fuel, ~200# for the 5th wheel hitch, and anything else you'll carry in the truck. Subtract this total truck weight from the truck's GVWR from sticker on the truck, and you'll know how much (fully equipped and loaded) trailer hitch pin weight the truck can carry without exceeding Dodge's limits.
Understand that people exceed these weight limits all the time...give the truck camper forum a quick read. Add helper springs (Timbren rubber springs or air bags) to level the truck, and you're on the road, but maybe with a risk of more breakdowns that you'd have if the truck was loaded within limits. There also might be safety concerns being overloaded.
I'm free of prostate cancer for 5 years now.
All men over age 50 should get an annual PSA blood test. Mine had a low reading, but the yearly jump was significant. The biopsy showed cancer just entering the aggressive stage. Dr. Hackenslash removed it.
To the OP. you have a Dodge 3500 without the leaf springs. So do I. I am actually under the GVWR by about 80#'s when loaded, but wouldn't be against towing more, my trailers gross is 11,600 but even loaded weighs much less. It tows great. I am not sure of the other makers, but with the Dodge, you are more than fine. Don't fret over 400#'s of pin weight with that rig. You will be well under your axle ratings if you tires are right. Take it to the scales and get the right weights. If you are that worried about the pin, take out your spare, the tailgate and anything you have stowed in the truck you don't need and put it in the trailer.
Kenneth, I am not trying to argue your advice of getting weigghts and figures, but that vehicle will not suffer any more stress than a 3500 SRW with the exception of the spring pack.
2008 Cougar 310SRX 5th Wheel
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 4x4 CTD
2008 Nissan Armada LE
Don & Carolyn wrote: We have a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500, quad cab, 4WD, short bed, 6-speed manual transmission, 5.9 liter HO Cummins diesel.
On the window sticker for our truck, it says 11,50 real axle. We don't know what that means.That is the diameter of the ring gear in the rear end. Also used to designate what rear end you have. Gear ratio will be posted either on the window sticker or on the build sheet that is generally attached to the inside of the glove compartment door.
We do not see anywhere what our axle ratio is. On the Dodge web site, it says that ... with a 4.10 axle ration, we can tow 12,700 lbs.
GVWR = 9000 lbs.This is the weight that the manufacturer certified to the Federal government that the truck can handle safely and that all systems will perform as advertised. Personally i do not advocate going over this number. Been there, done that and it is no fun.
Payload 1842 lbs.
GAWR front/rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbsAgain, this is the weights that the axles are certified to carry.
Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) - 20000 lbs.this is the MAXIMUM weight that the combination of truck and trailer can weigh according to the manufacturer and still be safe/legal/what ever you want to say.
WE ARE LOOKING AT A 5th wheel Heartland SUNDANCE 2800RLS which has a GVWR of 11,380. Dry weight is 7975 and the HITCH weight is 1875.Wrong1 NEVER look at the 'dry" weight. It will not even be close even when you bring it home. Pin weight can be figured at 20% of the trailers GVWR. In other words your real world pin weight will be about 2276 pounds. Too much for a 3/4 ton truck.
We are so confused with the numbers. Does it look like we can pull this Sundance with our truck or are we over our heads?Do you want to pull in a straight line? Then yes go ahead. If you go around any corners you will discover really fast what the term "tail wagging the dog" means. You will also learn about being pushed around corners.
Thanks,
Carolyn
* This post was
edited 04/27/08 04:48pm by donn0128 *
You're in the same boat as many half ton trucks. You can certainly TOW a lot more than your truck is rated to haul. The diesel engine that tows so much weight also uses much of the trucks payload capacity. PIN weight will be the limiting factor if you want to stay within your trucks rating. for what it's worth, there are a large percentage of 3/4 ton trucks pulling 5th wheels that FAR exceed their rating when it comes to pin weight. Good luck / Skip
jtallon wrote: Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, so please wait for confirmation, but it looks like the camper hitch weight of 1875 pounds exceeds the payload capacity of 1842 pounds on your truck. So while you might be ok with the total weights, the hitch weights are too much. And that's before you load gear, water, etc. in the camper. That would push your hitch weight even higher.
I'm sure someone will chime in and knock me around if I'm wrong!
Right on the money.
That truck will "pull" it, but cannot carry all the cargo in the truck without exceeding the truck's GVWR. Don't forget the other things that go in the truck beides the pin weight (which will be heavier when the trailer is loaded)...passengers, cargo, tools, the weight of the hitch, etc.
Don & Carolyn
Ask a weight related question here and you receive many responses. Most in good faith. You ask if a 2006 Dodge 2500 4 wheel drive, diesel powered truck will be ok pulling a Heartland SUNDANCE 2800RLS. The answer is "Yes" it will pull it fine (loaded up for camping) with absolutely no reliability, wear and tear, fuel burn, legal or moral problems, and you will be something close to 800 pounds under your 6010 pound rear GAWR limit. GAWR is the "do not exceed limit" number established by the vehicle's wheels, tires and axles. The GVWR is a recommended limit set by the builder based on engineering, management and marketing. It holds no bearing on legal or reliability issues. Many of us may never weigh our rigs, and if we do, the weights may change over time. Setting a recommended gross weight (GVWR) many hundred pounds under the rear axle weight limit (rear GAWR) is the builder's way of ensuring we (trucking amateurs) remain safe by a very wide margin.
A 5th wheel camper sits at or near the rear axle centerline and as such has none or little bearing on the front axle weights, therefore the front GAWR becomes hardly a consideration.
* This post was
last
edited 04/27/08 07:08pm by dshelley *
View edit history
I was going to reply, then bit my tongue... but I guess I'll reply. Weight questions do get plenty of opinions, usually along predictable lines - anyway.
First disclaimer - I've got the 2004 version of your truck and I believe the 2005's are the same (in fact I think they are essentially the same until 2007's). Next disclaimer - I'm basing this on internet forum info that seems to be reliable... but who knows. (actually in large part I'm posting this to see if anyone can offer a credible rebuttal that doesn't start with the idea "the engineers who designed...")
From what I've read the DIESEL version of the Dodge 2500 is identical to the 3500 in all respects EXCEPT for three: the 3500 has a helper spring, the 3500 has an emblem that says 3500, and the 3500 has a sticker that says 9900#. This comes from people who claim to have compared the vehicles part number for part number to figure it out.
Here's what I conclude (and this coming from an ENGINEER who has designed products - not trucks though - AND dealt with the product managers who end up writing up the stuff that goes on stickers)....
The 2500 DIESEL and 3500 DIESEL are identical products because it's cheaper to manufacture them that way. An engineer determined that IF the 3500 was more likely to haul at the top end of the weights a helper spring would be nice - so it was added - (there is absolutely NOTHING different about adding a helper spring - steel or air, yourself after market - the truck don't know who put it there!). A marketing or product manager decided that IF they were going to charge more money for the 3500 (and they do, though not a lot) they should make it look logical on the brochure - so they asked engineering if they could publish 10% more GVWR on the 3500 (eg 9000 to 9900) and engineering said "sure - we have more design margin than that for any reasonable criteria".
This may not be the case for other model years or brands and it may not be the case comparing gas to diesel. But it's the case for a 2004 Dodge and for sure you can take it up to 9900# (or there's something very wrong with the stickers on the 3500's....)
Logical? ...oh yes, this means that the RV you were looking at will tow fine with the truck you have.
Dave Lindemulder
Tammy, Mark & Kirsten
04 Dodge 2500 4x4 SLT QC/SB
HO-CTD/48RE - Graphite: Raptor SS nerfs, Prodigy, Reese 16K Kwik-slide, BD X-Monitor, PML Trans pan, PML Diff cover, Firestone Airbags
09 Heartland Cyclone 3210
There are numerous posts on this forum in support of this exact position regarding your particular truck. The weak link in your system is your rear tires/wheels. With proper tires and wheels, AAM (the people who build that 11.5" axle for Chrysler -- and GM as well) rate the rear axle you have at 10,800 lbs. Check your door sticker. It will give you ratings "when equipped with" a particular size and load range of oem tires and wheels. You will notice that your rear axle "rating" per the sticker is exactly twice the tire rating of your oem rear tires. Coincidence? I doubt it.
In any case, I have an '06 identical to yours with the exception that I have a long bed. It handles my 3 axle HR Next Level 38cks toyhauler rated at 16,950# just fine ... in fact better than just fine, exceptionally well. I have added many upgraded parts to handle my nearly 3800 lb pin weight. Air bags, upgraded shocks, upgraded brake pads, PacBrake PRXB, MDT 19.5" tires and wheels and more, but I occasionally see GCW's of nearly 25,000 lbs too, which is substantially more than you are contemplating.
In short, your truck should have no problem with the trailer you mentioned and if it does, there are many upgrades available to make it do the job even better than you probably ever imagined. You certainly don't need a new truck to handle that trailer.
Offline
Online
