kaydeejay
SE Michigan, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 07/26/2004
View Profile
 Offline
|
Hey Bumpy, for the energy a large vehicle will need a 240V 50A (range) outlet would seem to make sense. Recharge rate would be 12KwH per hour.
GM OTOH is looking to be able to plug the Volt into any 110V outlet, which will limit its charge rate under those circumstances, although I'm sure they will figure out how to charge faster if the circuits are available to do it.
Keith J, Retired from GM Engineering
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLE 2WD/CC/SB/DA.
1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS Fiver
Bilsteins, Line-X, Westin steps, Prodigy, Retrax, 16K Superglide, 5th-Airborne pin-box, Multi-vex mirrors.
|
kaydeejay
SE Michigan, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 07/26/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
sepisllib wrote:I disagre with the position of "couldn't sell the 4.3 diesel" - if that engine had been allowed to evolve and then be fitted with a turbo - it may have been a very superior engine.
I have never had a gas powered vehicle that ran as well and handled the mountains as well as that little non-turbo 4.3 engine.
I presently have the 2LT Malibu with 4 cylinder and it does reasonably well - runs 34 to 37 mpg - but I sure wouldn't want to drive it in the mountains much. Seem amazing that the auto Mfg cannot deliver the mpg on these vehicles as they did in the 80's - something really funny in the system there.
God Bless
Bill To sell it requires a market ready to buy it. That market was not there in the 80's.
The 4.3L was GMs second attempt at converting a gas engine (remember the Olds 350 diesel?) and was not exactly a raging success! You appear to have been satisfied with the leisurely progress that engine provided, most buyers were not.
And if you had a good one you were lucky.
There was therefore no incentive to continue development of that engine in North America. And none of the "Big Three" was looking at massive overseas sales back then.
Do you remember the Chevette (Isuzu engined) diesel in the 70's? A lot of people do, especially the fact that you could drive OR run the A/C, but not both.
It really was a case of "Three strikes and you're out" as far as GM diesels were concerned.
20/20 hindsight may be wonderful but who knew what 20 years was going to bring back in the mid 80s.
The Europeans have ALWAYS pursued diesels due to the cost of fuel over there. They also do not have to contend with temperatures approaching 40 below, which is a tough environment for a diesel engine especially. But then, the 2.4L 5 cylinder diesel in a small Volvo D50 I rented in the UK in March only got 31mpg in mainly highway driving. Not particularly impressive!
More modern electronics may help with the next generation, but again the particulate emission (soot) regs throw more expensive hurdles in the way. Look at the regeneration/afterburner equipment on the 2008 diesel trucks as an example.
|
KOG
Winterville GA
Senior Member
Joined: 01/31/2001
View Profile
Offline
|
kaydeejay, the efficiency of diesels isn't in highway use. But put that diesel in city traffic and it will then show far better fuel economy than a comparable gas engine. Which remains another of the main reasons why diesels have never worked in U.S. passenger cars. We don't have the kind of traffic congestion that Europe has. And then there's fuel price there vs. here. Don't expect diesels to take more than 50% of the new car market here as they have in Europe over th last few years. They, like hybrids, will remain something of a niche market in the U.S. And for the same reasons.
|
stevelv
FullTimers at Last!
Senior Member
Joined: 05/24/2006
View Profile
|
kaydeejay wrote:OK, if the Chevy Volt is going to "consume" 0.2 KwH of electricity per mile, it's 60 mile range will require batteries that store 12KwH of power. That's an 8 hour recharge from a regular 110V outlet. (at 1.5KwH per hour).BTW, that's 2¢/mile for those paying 10¢ per unit of electricity.
(The 0.2 KwH per mile is a number I ran across some time back - not quite sure where).
So it needs 1000 Amp Hours at 12 volts, which translates to a LOT of batteries!!!!
And this is for a small light, aerodynamic passenger car.
I think if I was going to look for a "small light, aerodynamic passenger car" I might be tempted by Wrightspeed. Their X1 prototype will accelerate faster than a Porsche or Ferrari Modena and driven sedately can drive for > 100 miles. It recharges in 90 minutes on a 220V 80A circuit.
It is just a prototype and is not practical but shows one glimpse of the future. Check out the video also here and here
RV Park Finder
Fulltimers
2002 Beaver Santiam 38DST + Banks + 99 Jeep GC
DH,DW,Jake and Indie
|
WA1RI
FL
Senior Member
Joined: 09/26/2004
View Profile
|
The Latitude is the rear engine gas or diesel coach. Either a 340 Cummins or the Chev 8.1. Now a third option I guess, big battery pack.
Bill & Jolene / FL
1997 Southwind 35P
2006 Yamaha 1100 Classic &
1970 Norton Commando 750 in state of recuperation (Almost road ready!!!)
6x12 Enclosd trailer
|
|
|
Bumpyroad
Virginia
Senior Member
Joined: 12/01/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
kaydeejay wrote:Hey Bumpy, for the energy a large vehicle will need a 240V 50A (range) outlet would seem to make sense. Recharge rate would be 12KwH per hour.
GM OTOH is looking to be able to plug the Volt into any 110V outlet, which will limit its charge rate under those circumstances, although I'm sure they will figure out how to charge faster if the circuits are available to do it.
I am sure that it would have a 110 v option in addition to 240 volt one.
bumpy
|
D.R.Bain
Michigan
Senior Member
Joined: 11/14/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
fourfurz wrote:What coach is that? Looks like a Gulfstream.
It's an interesting idea but who knows if it will fly. 800 miles is a lot of juice. I would guess more like 100 or even 50 would be about the most unless there was 30,000 lbs. of batteries in the beast.
Battery power just isn't up to the task of hauling around 30,000 lbs. of RV. Maybe when fusion powered energy cells are invented!
That is the point. They aren't going with lead acid batteries but lithium ion. Li-on batteries are what you find in all sorts of electronic devices. Laptops, cellphones even in My 2 meter handy talkie Ham radio. The great thing about newer battery technology over nicads is there is no charge memory, batteries can be topped off at anytime, nicads had to be near dead first.
There is even a sports car out there called the Tesla that has a faster start off the line over a formula 1 or at least that is what they claim.
http://www.2sportscars.com/teslaelectricsportscar.shtml
Dan, 2007 Damon Daybreak 3270
|
SpinRite
Research Triangle, NC
Senior Member
Joined: 07/17/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
So... how long do these batteries last? Five years? Eight?
And, what happens when they do need replacing, but the cost exceeds tha value of the coach itself?
The same question applies to ANY electric vehicle, even a little bubble car.
Can economies of scale bring the cost of batteries down much further?
Will there someday be specialty quick-change battery swap shops in every third strip shopping center, ala Midas Muffler and Jiffy Lube?
'94 Holiday Rambler Navigator
38', Cummins 8.3 300hp, Allison 3060
pushed by a 2005 Honda Element
|
smkettner
Southern California
Senior Member
Joined: 03/21/2005
View Profile
 Online
|
I think I might be satisfied with 150 to 250 mile range. A small 6000 watt onboard generator might extend the distance significantly if needed. I would love to roll in and fuel up overnight for "free". Of course it would only work for a few years before the parks catch on how much power you are sucking out of that 30 or 50 amp connection.
|
Bumpyroad
Virginia
Senior Member
Joined: 12/01/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
smkettner wrote:I think I might be satisfied with 150 to 250 mile range. A small 6000 watt onboard generator might extend the distance significantly if needed. I would love to roll in and fuel up overnight for "free". Of course it would only work for a few years before the parks catch on how much power you are sucking out of that 30 or 50 amp connection.
what is the efficiency of an electric vehicle that needs a fuel powered generator to run?
bumpy 
|
|
|
