Wow ok I guess I started quite the debate here! Bottom line is I dont know if I feel safe selling it to them. As I said they have kids and the kids will be in the backseat while they are towing. Granted they wont go far. Probably Ohio from Connecticut if even that far but Ill admit it still worries me. Weve towed it with a Kia Sedona with no problem and also with a Rav4 before we got the Sedona as far as PA or ME. I just dont know what to do. The camper company seems to think its ok to do but what about the insurance? If they get in a wreck while towing like this then what? Thats something else to think about. I would feel terrible if something went wrong. Honestly I dont need the money bad enough to take that risk.
Cars have been used for towing for decades and work well, many are stellar performers. Whether framed or unibodies, technology has made the newer ones even better.
The Sedona and the Rav4 set up both have 3500 pound tow ratings.
As for the ad in the previous post, Airstreams are rated as the most tow able hard sided trailer made and is what Andy Thompson of Can Am RV uses for most of his one off towing combinations for that reason.
Note that IIRC Andy has not used the Malibu, especially with a 4 cylinder engine, as a TV for any of his creations. Towing small trailers or large.
whaapala wrote: The camper company seems to think its ok to do but what about the insurance? If they get in a wreck while towing like this then what? Thats something else to think about.
Then the insurance company will pay out. They might get dropped when the policy comes up for renewal if they are grossly overweight. The real risks are swore wrists from a very tight grip on the wheel, ruining the transmission, and safety. Insurance is a non-issue.
Those limits on some vehicles can be pushed a bit with a large transmission cooler, extra attention to weight and balance, good sway control, good tires, good suspension, careful driving, etc. Unfortunately towing capabilities of a vehicle are a gray area. What works well with one combination could be uncomfortable, unreliable, or unsafe with a different combination with all the same ratings.
The kids will be no less safe than in the backseat of a minivan! if everyone worried aout everything out there we`de all be living in bubbles. and to the person worried about the car folding up in an accident, the hitch mounting bolts would shear off first before the car buckled! if the car is going to buckle in an accident they have other more serious issues.
Even a 1 ton dually can be unsafe towing a PuP!
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Air lift air bags.
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dodge guy wrote: Even a 1 ton dually can be unsafe towing a PuP!
This is correct. HD diesel pickups going 80 mph towing large 5th wheel trailers are unsafe (try an emergency manuever at 80 mph with a 4X4 HD truck towing 11,000 lb). I see that all the time, but for some reason people consider that to be safe because they are within their weight ratings.
My brother in law's Ford Bronco II, rated to tow 5000 lb, is unsafe without a trailer attached. My Lumina/trailer combo (low profile tires, independent suspension, low center of gravity) is much safer in emergency manuevers at 55-60 mph than his Bronco II is solo.
I probably would have burned up my transmission long ago if I was regularly towing a full height U-Haul weighing half as much as my popup. It is a popup, after all. Air resistance matters.
There is more to safe towing than simply looking at the weights.
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dodge guy wrote: ...and to the person worried about the car folding up in an accident, the hitch mounting bolts would shear off first before the car buckled!
After installing a Reese Class III Receiver onto my minivan all by myself, I'm not too sure about that. The unibody frame was alarmingly thin, flimsy sheet metal, particularly at the end of the box. I watched it flex as the bolts were being tightened.
If it were possible for the bolts to shear off, they would also shear off when pulling a 2,500 lb trailer. I'm more inclined to think that the Receiver and mounting hardware are now the strongest part of the frame!
Fast Mopar wrote: There is more to safe towing than simply looking at the weights.
More true words are rarely spoken.
It's entirely possible that a Malibu pulling a popup camper remains a safer vehicle than the average large truck or SUV. Bigger does not always equal safer.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
whaapala wrote: . With new brakes and the hitch installed would be about $500. My friends don't want to pay that much
That just adds to the problem ... Many people who think they can "get by" with their current (undersized) tow vehicle don't want to spend a penny to possibly create a safe and reliable towing unit.
Melissa - I think you are doing these people a favor by not selling them the popup. And you know who they would blame if something happened.
Jeff
I don't believe it is a question of "getting by" by using a smaller TV.
In our case we researched TV for years before finding the one with acception qualities. I would suspect that the Malibu in question, set up optimally, would out perform your SUV/pop up combination in many ways including overall safety.
I hope you are kidding - you cannot possibly believe that ...
Anyway, getting back to the origional question; what I was saying is that many people who have vehicles that have marginal tow capacity are unwilling to invest a few extra bucks to properly set them up for towing.
For example, Caddywompus mentioned that he added brakes and a WHD to his setup, alot of people add transmission coolers or helper springs, Timbrens, etc.
Towing a trailer - any trailer - is added responsibility for the driver. It is his responsibility to himself, his family, and the other drivers on the road to have a safe towing combination. Once you exceed (or even as you approach) the manufacturers tow rating you need to invest a little time and money.
The first thing is to actually weigh your vehicle and the camper (stocked as you would for camping). Once you know the weights you can start to access any limitations and the modifications necessary.
Another issue that hasn't been addressed is towing experiance. If I may use Caddywhomus as an expample again: it sounds like he has alot of towing experiance over the years - this can help overcome some of the limitations of a tow vehicle. Unlike the neighbors in the OP who may have never towed anything before. I my opinion the worst combination is an experianced driver, kids in the car and the unwillingness to spend the money for safety items like electric brakes.
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