I suggest you go to a web site such as A M Solor of Eugene, OR and read up on the difference between types of batteries. We currently use six 6 volt golf cart batteries. These batteries (6 volt batteries)have thicker plates than a 12 volt battery and will last longer than 12 volt batteries.
SILVERB
2006 Chevrolet, 3500, 2005 Teton, 33' Sunrise Prestage, Duel axil, Electric over Hyd Disc Brakes, Triple Slide, Solor Powered
http://community.webshots.com/album/78656361RrIcZu
pnichols wrote: "Heft 232 amp hours of 12volt.. You get... Hernia?"
Huh??????
How is it that two true deep cycle 12V batteries in parallel to provide 232 AH (116 AH each, so two needed for 232AH total) weigh more than two true deep cycle 6V batteries in series to provide 12 V (232 AH each and total, but two needed for 12V)?
John, I don't think you meant exactly what it came out sounding like!
I was indeed refering to a single battery with 232 amp hours (Since the six volt pair becomes a single 12 volt battery)
However the line is as much joke as fact
Nothin adds excitment like something that is none of your business John is Near Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377
I had two group 27 deep cycle 12v batteries in my 06 Bigfoot C. They wouldn't last through the night for running the heater at 20 degrees plus or minus. Replaced them with 4 6v golf cart batteries. That's going from 224 amp hours to 440 amp hours. No further problems, in fact they'll last two nights before I need to recharge.
By the way the tray and space for the batteries was so large no modifications were required other then wiring the batteries.
I took the 5er in this morning for annual service work, and some warranty work. While it is there, they will work up a quotation for installing the additional batteries, that I will provide.
My previous TT's had dual 6-volt batteries. In fact, the 1985 Prowler I had from new until 2003 could go as much as 8 days drycamping without needing to be recharged. That Prowler had significantly less power demands than the 2004 NRV Surf Side Lite that we bought in 2003. The Surf Side would last about 3-4 days on a charge.
'07 Chevy 2500HD Silverado "Classic" CC D/A 4x4
'07 Komfort Trailblazer T252FS fifth wheel
Reese Signature 18K Slider and other stuff.....some useful.....some not
One 12 volt battery of reasonable size can be anything from 75 up to around 125 amp hours. Depending on what you call reasonable (Group 24 to I'm not sure what)
It also depends on if it's deep cycle (more amp hours) or starting (more peak amps) but the fact is that 12 volters come in many sizes.. I have some down in the single digit amp hour range.
But the kind we are talking about go down to 75 amp hours, so you'd need 3 of them to equal 2 six volters. And the MAXIMUM Deep Cycle Marine I saw at Wally World Tuesday was 125 amp hours.. Only 12 volt battery on the rack with amp hours on it's label (Not but 250 cranking amps though, it's a real DEEP CYCLE)
Quote: But ona dollars per usable watt... Six volt pairs
last visit to Sam's had both 12v and 6v on the table. The 12v had about 5% more watt hour energy capacity at the 20 hour rating and cost 10% less. -- that doesn't look to me like the 6v had any cost per watt hour advantage.
The fact is that every manufacturer's battery line exists because of trade-offs between capacity, cost, and ruggedness. That is why you have the T105 and the T145 in the Trojan 6v or the SCS 200 and SCS220 in their 12v line. The differences do not depend upon voltage of the battery but rather which of the trade-offs is being sacrificed for the others.
Quote: These batteries (6 volt batteries)have thicker plates
AM Solar is a good place but in pushing this myth their customer explanations are several decades out of date. No modern battery for RV's has solid lead plates anymore as that's a waste of material.
Their use of "deep cycle" is also quite misleading. They say it right when they note that no lead acid battery will take discharges to 20% SoC very well but that message is rather hidden in trying to discriminate between SLI and RV batteries.
This does provide a good illustration of why anyone interesting in other than myth needs to review several sources and to also gain some understanding of the underlying issues.
I would also strongly advise that your skepticism level should correlate with positiveness of the assertions being offered. For instance, one magic bullet for all needs deserves a lot of skepticism.
As for the AH thing - it is much easier to compare batteries using watt hours. That way you won't get mislead in comparisons with different voltages. The total energy capacity, again, does not depend upon voltage but rather on size (weight). You can get some big 12v batteries (8d is rather common for a 2kwH 12v battery, for instance).
You will also find that there is no such thing as a "deep cycle" battery when it comes to RV use except in marketing hype. There is nothing in a spec sheet that you can point to and say whether or not the battery is deep cycle. That is why assertions like "deep cycle (more amp hours) or starting (more peak amps)" mean nothing. Most modern batteries intended for RV service can provide plenty of starting current and most modern SLI batteries can do quite well in RV service.
What is illustrated by several posts is that retailers choose which batteries in a manufacturer's line to sell and have only a selected few models available. Be aware that what you see in one store is not necessarily representative of the options you have available to you.
EPenney wrote: I currently have (2) 12-volt batteries, and am considering adding 2 more.
The current batteries are (2) Group 24 12-volt Marine/RV that came with the 5er. There is plenty of space for adding 2 more batteries. What I need to decide is, do I stay with 12-volt, or switch to 6-volt batteries. I already have 2 barely used 2-year old Trojan T105 6-volt batteries that came out of a TT I traded in 1-year ago. Whatever I decide to do, I will have to purchase 2 more batteries.
My last 2 TT's had dual 6-volt batteries that gave me years of reliable service. When I purchased the 5er last year, the dealer talked me into going with dual 12-volt batteries. The 5er is a power hog, and I can only go about 1-1/2 dry camping days before I need to hook the genset up to charge. We have about 26 dry camping days scheduled for this summer.
What is your opinion....(4) 6-volt or (4) 12-volt batteries?
You think that's a power hog? We can go about 8 HOURS before having to run the gen for two hours and we have 4 U-2200's! We run the TV, lights, refer, storage bay freezer, U-Line ice maker and anything else we need/want. Wife insists in ice and the ice makers that are in most RV refers just don't put out enough to keep up with her. Then there's the food in the storage bay freezer too. If we were serious boondockers we'd change some things, but this works for us. 12volt batteries won't even come close to what we use. 12 volt deep cycle batteries (true deep cycle ones) are really expensive. Even the battery companies recommend the 6 volt as the most bang for the buck.
Deen - Vancouver, WA
'02 Dutch Star 4090 (41+', triple slide)
435/1200 ISC Cummins/Banks PowerPak
'97 Grand Cherokee/4 down
'05 Honda Odyssey/dolly
NRA Benefactor Life Member
FMCA f47302s, Life Member: Good Sam, Newmar DP Owners Group
51st yr of RV'ing
You will also find that there is no such thing as a "deep cycle" battery when it comes to RV use except in marketing hype. There is nothing in a spec sheet that you can point to and say whether or not the battery is deep cycle. That is why assertions like "deep cycle (more amp hours) or starting (more peak amps)" mean nothing. Most modern batteries intended for RV service can provide plenty of starting current and most modern SLI batteries can do quite well in RV service.
I don't know where you got that wrong information but there most certainly is a differnce in starting and deep cycle batteries, even down to the plates and their composition as well as the internal buss. You really should do some research before posting misleading information!
What are we to do with this sensible, cogent post. I hope it sets a new precedent.
Al C
bryanl wrote:
Quote: But ona dollars per usable watt... Six volt pairs
last visit to Sam's had both 12v and 6v on the table. The 12v had about 5% more watt hour energy capacity at the 20 hour rating and cost 10% less. -- that doesn't look to me like the 6v had any cost per watt hour advantage.
The fact is that every manufacturer's battery line exists because of trade-offs between capacity, cost, and ruggedness. That is why you have the T105 and the T145 in the Trojan 6v or the SCS 200 and SCS220 in their 12v line. The differences do not depend upon voltage of the battery but rather which of the trade-offs is being sacrificed for the others.
Quote: These batteries (6 volt batteries)have thicker plates
AM Solar is a good place but in pushing this myth their customer explanations are several decades out of date. No modern battery for RV's has solid lead plates anymore as that's a waste of material.
Their use of "deep cycle" is also quite misleading. They say it right when they note that no lead acid battery will take discharges to 20% SoC very well but that message is rather hidden in trying to discriminate between SLI and RV batteries.
This does provide a good illustration of why anyone interesting in other than myth needs to review several sources and to also gain some understanding of the underlying issues.
I would also strongly advise that your skepticism level should correlate with positiveness of the assertions being offered. For instance, one magic bullet for all needs deserves a lot of skepticism.
As for the AH thing - it is much easier to compare batteries using watt hours. That way you won't get mislead in comparisons with different voltages. The total energy capacity, again, does not depend upon voltage but rather on size (weight). You can get some big 12v batteries (8d is rather common for a 2kwH 12v battery, for instance).
You will also find that there is no such thing as a "deep cycle" battery when it comes to RV use except in marketing hype. There is nothing in a spec sheet that you can point to and say whether or not the battery is deep cycle. That is why assertions like "deep cycle (more amp hours) or starting (more peak amps)" mean nothing. Most modern batteries intended for RV service can provide plenty of starting current and most modern SLI batteries can do quite well in RV service.
What is illustrated by several posts is that retailers choose which batteries in a manufacturer's line to sell and have only a selected few models available. Be aware that what you see in one store is not necessarily representative of the options you have available to you.
If you think you will get a whole bunch more AH capacity out of 4 6'ers, rather than 4 12'ers (grp 27) you're thinking wrong. They all are near the same capacity. But the 6'ers are consistently reported to have better longivity in yrs of service.
I have had great performance with 12V Trojan SCS series batteries compared to generic deep cycle batteries from Sams. They may not be as cost effective as the golf cart batteries but I am not interested in hauling a lot of lead around when I can keep my one high quality 12V charged with a 29 pound generator and a gallon of gas for over a week of dry camping. I do not run an inverter but do run a vent fan all night plus the usual water pump lights etc. You should also make sure that your battery(s) is in good condition by flly charging and checking open circuit voltage for several days. I also run the desulphate cycle on my charger for about a week prior to any entended dry camping to make sure the battery is at full capacity.
Offline
