Plus do you trust the rating as being tested by known government agency or could it be marketing hype. Who approves the sticker that gets slapped on? Is each hitch tested or just a few and hopefully the maker does not later use cheaper steel or fewer welds? Just why to you trust the 100% rating?
It may be like the blow out problems with RV tires due if both the MH and tire builders are pushing the limits when doing the load rating numbers?
1. Common Sense... it's never a good idea to push anything to it's absolute limit.
2. Safety... Less stopping distance, better control under "panic" situations.
3. Better gas mileage.
4. There's always the possibility that if a drive componant fails while the TV is under warranty, that the manufacturer could, if they felt like it, make an issue of towing at or above the recommend limits.
Thus the "80% rule" just makes good sence for a varity of reasons.
A "better safe than sorry" type of thing.
Interesting reply, let's look at the individual line items.
1. Just because rig is at limits doesn't necessarily mean it's being pushed to the "absolute limits" For example a fully loaded rig running at 60 on flat trerain is not consuming much energy. Pulling a 7% grade will push it but that's only a small fraction of the duty cycle.
2. Safety, all modern vehicles are designed with braking systems fully capable of stopping up to and beyond the GCCWR. The adhesion of the tires is actually the limiting factor and that would assume the TT brakes are not fully functional.
3. Fuel economy is more dependant on the frontal area and the wind drag then wt. Wt is only rolling resistance.
4. Tough for a manufacturer to deny warrenty work on a vehicle operating within it's design limits.
Now granted, many folks operate on the better safe then sorry, but that's a personal decision. I've also witnessed a "tolerance creep" where everone that reviews a design sticks in a bit more safety factor. Pretty soon you don't have a funtional design...at least on paper.
Dick
2008 Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited TRD
2009 Cougar 268 RLS ~8400 lbs road wt
Equal-i-zer 12,000 lb hitch, Prodigy BC.
2006 Jeep Liberty Turbo Diesel.....TV in Training
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI,(retired)
2005 Jayco Jay Feather 25Z, 4" lift (Retired)
Kajtek1 wrote: WHAT???
My 3600 lb SUV is rated to tow 7000 lb by German manufacturer, what for "unknown" reasons is lowered to 5000 lb for US market.
The reasons are very clear...
The US market has much more severe grades and ambient temperature potential than most other markets. For EU countries towing speeds are also closely regulated. Your German SUV would overheat in a heartbeat if you tried to tow that 7000# trailer up Baker grade on I-15 in California on an average summer day where the temperature would be in the 110F to 120F range.....
You don't know much about German (real) cars do you?
I've been leaving my cars idling with AC on at 120F desert and electric fan didn't even run on high.
I towed 4000 lb trailer on Grapevine grade a month ago what is much steeper than Baker grade, holding steady 60 mph. Most of it on overdrive.
This way or another I think the 80% belongs were "3000 miles oil change" do.
Pessimist sees dark tunnel, optimist sees a light at the end, realist sees lights of coming train.Engineer sees 3 idiots on the tracks.
Kajtek1 wrote: WHAT???
My 3600 lb SUV is rated to tow 7000 lb by German manufacturer, what for "unknown" reasons is lowered to 5000 lb for US market.
The reasons are very clear...
The US market has much more severe grades and ambient temperature potential than most other markets. For EU countries towing speeds are also closely regulated. Your German SUV would overheat in a heartbeat if you tried to tow that 7000# trailer up Baker grade on I-15 in California on an average summer day where the temperature would be in the 110F to 120F range.....
You don't know much about German (real) cars do you?
I've been leaving my cars idling with AC on at 120F desert and electric fan didn't even run on high.
I towed 4000 lb trailer on Grapevine grade a month ago what is much steeper than Baker grade, holding steady 60 mph. Most of it on overdrive.
Get off your German High Horse, the post is not relavant to the topic. No one cares.
I tow a 1,700lb camper with a vehicle tow rated at 1,000lbs.
I guess that means I'm ok, since I'm only 70% above the vehicle's tow rating.
Seriously though, American cars (not trucks) are grossly underrated to sell higher profit trucks and SUV's. If you exceed the manufacturers rating you're on your own though both as far as warranty claims and legal issues should you be involved in an accident. Up to the manufacturers very conservative tow ratings you're cool.
It's very simple,take a vehicle and tow at maximum limits,hook a TV to the same TT thats 70-80% at it's limit and it tows effortlessly,stops, steers,handles,in most every situation you feel the TV under you and in control,as someone that has raced every kind of car and truck and ran to the limit,things will go a lot farther than rated...but if you have a failure with your rig,it's kids wife,pets and a LARGE investment,on the line,not a race vehicle,Everyone should try overtime as they can afford,to have the most capable TV and the TT be a secondary issue,I know from prior experience when you have to "drive" your rig every moment because you are right at the limit it's nowhere near as comfortable (or safe)Than when you can just relax and roll on down the road,ready for whatever may come up.Besides when your not working your TV to the max.it will last a lot longer and have less breakdowns,which in the end costs less.Asking if a Liberty will pull 5000lbs.and discussing it in a forum for three days is pointless,it will but you probably wouldn't want to be the driver....
2008 Keystone Cougar XLite 29RLS
2006 Super Duty V10 6 Speed 4.10S Tow Command Tow Pkg. 4X4
Also to remember is the stated tow rating is at sea level with a new factory spec vehicle. If you are towing at 7-8,000 feet with a vehicle that is several years old the tow rating in the manual is not quite as accurate as it once was.
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Log off and go camping!
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What 'limit' gets the 20% 'safety' factor reduction?
If it is the infamous marketing 'MAX' tow rating?...'MAX' tow rating for most American vehicles can generally ONLY be achieved by a STRIPPED (i.e. curb weighted), full fluids and a 150# driver. EACH and EVERY pound ADDED to the vehicle OVER curb weight...that advertised and marketing number is NOT accurate. Pile in a large family with gear, toys, food inside an optioned out high end vehicle...the 'MAX' is NOT what is listed in that tow guide...how many actually WEIGH their vehicle before hitching up?
So if we are talking 80% of the 'MAX' advertised tow rating...I offer that a large family with lots of gear inside a decked out vehicle may be no where near the advertised allowable 'MAX' to start!
Next to go along with the 'MAX'...IF (big if) the vehicle truly were curb weighted...you would have all available PAYLOAD. Remember that large family with lots of gear inside that decked out vehicle...it is plausible to use up ALL the listed payload...if you did that...where would one carry the tongue load?
So how does one apply the 80% rule to payload (and thus to the GVWR too?) What if you have none left due to that large family and gear?
Now what about GCWR...do we apply the 80% factor to that?
The way American manufacturers rate their vehicles...one will generally ALWAYS bust the GVWR or max tow rating well ahead of GCWR. I suspect that is why many like to 'choose' to go by the GCWR
I'd further venture a guess that unless we are talking about a solo driver in a curb weighted vehicle...one WILL bust the GVWR ahead of the GCWR...
In my own TV/TT combo as verified on the scale...I am actually right at or 100#'s over my Excursions GVWR depending on if I haul fresh water I'm over due to the added 100# of tongue load...BUT if you look at my GCW I'm at 17,000#s on a 20,000# GCW rated vehicle. My TT weighs 9000#'s and the Ex if curb weighted is rated to tow 11,000#'s.
In my situation...
I'm 100% of my GVWR
I'm 100% of my GAWR-RR
I'm 95% of my receiver rating in WD mode
I'm towing 81% of the 'MAX' tow rating
I'm towing at 85% of my GCWR
WHICH rating should I apply the 80% to to be 'SAFE'???
My rig is perfectly balanced as verified via a scale...If I were to add ANY MORE weight to my Ex either gear or tongue I'd be well over my GVWR.
I guess though that by looking at my balancing...I'm right in line with the 80% on GCWR and 'MAX' tow rating...but if I were go apply that to GVWR...I'd be tugging a pretty small TT...
So my point is that the 80% rule is a way to help give a quick answer to a fairly detailed problem...but depending on the answer to a couple of questions...like how big and heavy the people are in the family and how much you carry in the TV...could invalidate the quick answer IMO...because...if you eat up all possible payload with PEOPLE and GEAR...where do you put the tongue...so simply stating 80% of your 'MAX' tow rating is a roll of the dice...you may get a single person in a stripper vehicle that has all kinds of GVWR room...but then you may get a large family of 6 in a mid-sized SUV that is at GVWR on the SUV BEFORE droppping pound 1 of tongue load...
So the question I have yet to seen answered in this or any of the countless threads on this topic.
WHAT RATING DO YOU APPLY THE 80% TO?...it changes based on the situation/person...
The ratings are there as a WHOLE...not individuals...you simply can't look at the one that suits you...well let me restate that...you can...I choose to look at the WHOLE equation...which can take some time...but I know that in the end...the balance is achieved and I have not exceeded any of my ratings.
It is my opinion that all ratings have margin...you will not break something by going over by 1 pound...but some do feel more leeway than others and there in lies the rub...
For the sake of open forums...I attempt to work thru the numbers...I have also run enough numbers for folks on here...that I do feel that some vehicles are rated tighter than others and some are pretty loose in their ratings...but in the end...the ratings are the ratings...whether we choose to believe them or not...
I choose to believe the DESIGN engineers that came up with the ratings...because I know their legal team has approved them...as you can tell...I'm leaving some of my ratings on the side of the road...but I had to in order to not grossly exceed the GVWR...my rig has been balanced thru the scales...as I said previously...it is a quick, painless and inexpensive process that yields knowledge of YOUR rig...an important piece of information as we roll down the road at more than a few tons with our families inside...
In the end...you are the captain of your rig...knowing how you fair against your ratings is your business and your responsibility...no one 80% application of a vague 'rule' can fit ALL setups...sorry...one must dig deeper...if in the end you end up like I did with some of my ratings at ~80%...that's okay...but it wasn't by design...
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