What about the 2500HD with the 6.0 gasser? Our Northstar Laredo is on a 2004 2500HD with a gas engine and we have been very satisifed with the performance. Mileage with camper on is around 12 and off around 14. Not as good as the diesel but less cost going in and lighter in weight.
If you were doing heavy towing or had a heavier camper then a diesel would be a good choice. With the Laredo, which is on the light side, it might be overkill. As far as saving money, I would love to see data that proves a diesel has a overall lower cost when adding up everything.
Take everything into consideration -
Ex. residual value
Put on AutoTrader a used 6.0 Liter gas burner tow vehicle with 100,000 miles vs. a 6.6 Liter diesel tow vehicle with 100,000 miles. Which will recoup most of the original cost?
For those 100,000 miles, consider this -
Gasoline $3.50 gallon
Diesel $4.31 gallon (Real average is .50 to .70 per gal higher where I live)
60% empty
40% hauling or towing (my % are exactly opposite, but...)
6.0 liter gas burner 12 mpg loaded (higher than I've ever seen)
6.6 liter diesel 14 mpg loaded (I have seen higher)
6.0 liter gas burner 14 mpg empty (using your numbers)
6.6 liter diesel 18 mpg empty
Fuel Cost to operate gas burner $26,667
Fuel Cost to operate diesel $26,681
I have towed with both. My impression of towing with a gas burner with 4.10 gears vs. a diesel with 3.73 gears - I always felt like I was straining the guts out of the 6.0 liter gas burner. And, there is no way that it could maintain speed up hills like a diesel. I always arrive much more relaxed and sooner with a diesel!
As for the routine maintenance items - diesel oil change every 7,500 miles and fuel filter every 15,000 miles.
countrykids wrote: What about the 2500HD with the 6.0 gasser? Our Northstar Laredo is on a 2004 2500HD with a gas engine and we have been very satisifed with the performance. Mileage with camper on is around 12 and off around 14. Not as good as the diesel but less cost going in and lighter in weight.
If you were doing heavy towing or had a heavier camper then a diesel would be a good choice. With the Laredo, which is on the light side, it might be overkill. As far as saving money, I would love to see data that proves a diesel has a overall lower cost when adding up everything.
I had a 2002 2500hd with a 6L gasser. It would do fine with a Northstar Laredo. It pulled my rig with a lot of shifting and driver attention. Mileage was 8-12. It would do either piece separately (camper or trailer) in the 12-14mpg range with a lot more ease. The diesel gets 12-14, but I don't need to slow down or downshift. Diesels are all about the smiles it brings to your face when you are driving; if you are doing the cost thing and thinking hybrids or diesels, I think you are looking in the wrong direction; the overall winner has to be a preowned gasser.
Choices often revolve around what it is you actually do with the truck.
Is it a daily driver, and driven empty?
Is it an occasional driver and always loaded?
That has a lot to do with the functionality and best performance against what you need it to do.
My truck for instance is diesel, but it is only driven when I need a truck to haul with. Sometimes the load is light, sometimes it is pushing the GVWR but it is always hauling something besides myself.
The diesel just provides the needed torque curve and efficiency that the gas model cannot. It is however much harder on the wallet if you drive it a lot of miles while never needing the capacity it is made for.
Look at the choice like this:
You need a hammer-
You might want a relatively light 12 oz hammer if it is on your belt loop a lot and you are not driving 16 penny nails.
If you have a tool belt and drive a variety of larger nails you might choose a 16 oz hammer.
If you have a tool belt w/ suspenders and drive a lot of larger nails a good 20 oz hammer is a choice.
Some people have tool carts and tend to drive a lot of railroad spikes, for them a good sledge is in order.
But if you look at the choices, nobody is going to attempt to drive spikes with a little hammer, nor will they want to carry a sledge on their belt.
Just with hammers, trucks need to be the right one to do the job.
Usually people find they are trying to use too small a hammer because they suddenly discover that their nail selection is 20p nails. (3000# of dry weight truck camper on a 3/4 t truck)
You really need to have realistic weights and type of use figured out to make a wise decision.
Dave & Sue,
DINKS and dedicated to having fun as much as possible.
05 GMC LT crewcab dually
07 Northern Lite 10.2 CD SE, highly optioned version...
A lot comes on a SE.
D&SBarnes wrote: Choices often revolve around what it is you actually do with the truck.
Just with hammers, trucks need to be the right one to do the job.
Usually people find they are trying to use too small a hammer because they suddenly discover that their nail selection is 20p nails. (3000# of dry weight truck camper on a 3/4 t truck)
You really need to have realistic weights and type of use figured out to make a wise decision.
So what you are getting at is to buy a one ton truck?
What about the 2500HD with the 6.0 gasser? Our Northstar Laredo is on a 2004 2500HD with a gas engine and we have been very satisifed with the performance. Mileage with camper on is around 12 and off around 14. Not as good as the diesel but less cost going in and lighter in weight.
If you were doing heavy towing or had a heavier camper then a diesel would be a good choice. With the Laredo, which is on the light side, it might be overkill. As far as saving money, I would love to see data that proves a diesel has a overall lower cost when adding up everything.
Take everything into consideration -
Ex. residual value
Put on AutoTrader a used 6.0 Liter gas burner tow vehicle with 100,000 miles vs. a 6.6 Liter diesel tow vehicle with 100,000 miles. Which will recoup most of the original cost?
For those 100,000 miles, consider this -
Gasoline $3.50 gallon
Diesel $4.31 gallon (Real average is .50 to .70 per gal higher where I live)
60% empty
40% hauling or towing (my % are exactly opposite, but...)
6.0 liter gas burner 12 mpg loaded (higher than I've ever seen)
6.6 liter diesel 14 mpg loaded (I have seen higher)
6.0 liter gas burner 14 mpg empty (using your numbers)
6.6 liter diesel 18 mpg empty
Fuel Cost to operate gas burner $26,667
Fuel Cost to operate diesel $26,681
I have towed with both. My impression of towing with a gas burner with 4.10 gears vs. a diesel with 3.73 gears - I always felt like I was straining the guts out of the 6.0 liter gas burner. And, there is no way that it could maintain speed up hills like a diesel. I always arrive much more relaxed and sooner with a diesel!
As for the routine maintenance items - diesel oil change every 7,500 miles and fuel filter every 15,000 miles.
Please look at the original question. This person is NOT towing, they are putting a camper on a pickup.
Realter,
Yes I guess so, if the job warrants. But not everyone wants a huge TC, and some are happy with a bare bones lightweight model. But that doesn't seem to fit into the norm. I just think that people need to do research first into what sort of TC they plan to get, make sure it functions well & suits them. Then they need to make the same effort in matching it to the truck. This applies not only to the trucks GVWR, but in it's ergonomics for long trips, engine pulling capacity, gear ratios, tires, etc. The list goes on.
If any of those are way out of where they should be it causes problems.
If they already have the truck and refuse to change it out to match a TC, then the reverse needs to be done, and compromise to match the truck.
Which is what I did the 1st time around. When I could afford a better truck (one I wanted in the 1st place), then I eventually sought out a better TC to put on it. I worked my way up to where I am now, but regardless the TC and truck were always reasonably good matches for each other.
One thing I did discover on the previous truck w/ 6.0 gas was that even though it managed the load it tended to downshift a lot when on moderate grades. From that I knew I needed something with more torque, but a big block gas was not going to be economical enough, hence the shift to diesel.
The previous truck was also a daily driver, so it was in fact the wiser choice at that time to have the smaller standard engine.
My ultimate goal was to get into a TC that would be comfortable enough for several weeks travel at a time, the 1st Tc was good for weekends and a maybe a weeks travel before feeling like I wanted to get back home. Not enough room or storage. Our current rig is both comfortable on the drive, and is reasonable enough in size for 2 weeks in it without complaint. 3 weeks would be ok, as long as the environment you go to is also worth it. We both have a tendency to want to get back home after awhile anyway. We probably just haven't evolved into full retirement on the road mentality yet. But I just don't see a Class A in my future.
It is all a matter of making wise decisions, versus getting stuff by default.
You may not be able to get exactly what you want, but you can make choices concerning the things you can achieve.
Can you safely overload a truck 5%, 10% 15%?? I mean over the GVWR. In the case of a Chevy that is 9200 lbs on a 3/4 ton and 9800 or 9900 lbs. on a one ton pickup. Or would you never even think of putting anything over the manufacturers weight limits.
Keep it under max load ratings for the tires, wheels and axles, which do not necessarily all have the same ratings. The GVWR numbers don't always make much sense. If under the other equipment ratings, the springs can be upgraded to help carry the weight better. If you get into overloading, you're looking at upgrading alot of stuff and it isn't cheap. It is always best to buy the proper truck for the job to begin with.
The re-sale value of used diesel trucks have tanked in my area. The Blue Book may say your truck is worth X amount but try and sell it for that price and you will be sitting by a phone that does not ring...
Ken & Kris + Heidi the dog
Sequim, Wa.
2003 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 diesel
2003 Logan Wrangler XL 2 Horse slant load trailer
Biggest problem here is people don't know what the truck with full fuel and normal passenger load actually weighs. You might have a 9200 pound GVWR with a nearly 7000 pound basically unloaded truck. That doesn't give you a lot of reserve payload for a TC. Especially when the average TC weighs in over 2K empty.
People go over the GVWR all the time, but I will not be an advocate for that.
I will tell people to watch the numbers, and never exceed the tire ratings.
Overloaded tires have the nasty habit of failure, and sometimes at the worst possible moment.
You only need look at the past Firestone debacle with SUV's and full size vans to see what the results might be. They are not as awkward and top heavy as a TC laden truck.
It is also no coincidence that the rear axle rating usually is what the combined tire rating comes to. It is like the manufacturer held up a sign trying to warn people about the tires and not to exceed them - HERE IS YOUR WEAKest LINK.
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