My thought on the subject is safety. Why take the risk with your family or other people on the road trying to tow this trailer with a truck that is in question if it can handle it or not.
Is the risk worth trying to beef up the truck that in the end isn't designed to haul a 5th that large?
09 Big Country 2950RK
06 Dodge 3500 CTD 4X2 Mega Cab DRW B&W
Is the risk worth trying to beef up the truck that in the end isn't designed to haul a 5th that large?
Now that's the rub... and it is a matter of determining the risks and mitigating them - the truck is designed to tow heavy loads, and it can be configured to handle more. The question is - at what costs, capability and degree of risk.
Safety is important and more is better, but it is a continuum, not an on/off switch.
Dave Lindemulder
Tammy, Mark & Kirsten
04 Dodge 2500 4x4 SLT QC/SB
HO-CTD/48RE - Graphite: Raptor SS nerfs, Prodigy, Reese 16K Kwik-slide, BD X-Monitor, PML Trans pan, PML Diff cover, Firestone Airbags
09 Heartland Cylcone 3210
chrizg wrote: My thought on the subject is safety. Why take the risk with your family or other people on the road trying to tow this trailer with a truck that is in question if it can handle it or not.
Is the risk worth trying to beef up the truck that in the end isn't designed to haul a 5th that large?
Well, lets consider that for a moment. Your position apparently is that since the truck wasn't originally certified for a particular weight, that it cannot reasonable be re-configured to handle additional weight safely. That's about it in a nutshell, right? On it's face, that might even appear logical.
However, when faced with the facts about the various components in more heavily rated models that are identical to those in the OP's truck, that those systems not up to those standards have been upgraded to at least those specs and beyond, what say you then?
I specifically like to point out that the oem wheels on a light duty (one ton) dually are very weak compared to those on my 3/4 ton, as are the individual tires. On that Megacab shown below the text in that post, the front axle rating is 5200 lbs. It probably carries close to 5,000 lbs there w/no load in the bed -- perhaps a bit more. The oem dually wheels, singled out, are only rated for either 2600 lbs
or 2800 lbs, I can't remember which. Lets give it the benefit of the doubt and say it's 2800 lbs. That's only 5600 lbs total which means that the static load on those wheels are at more than 89% of their rated capacity. Loaded, and under heavy braking, with the weight transfer, how heavy do you think that steer axle is?
I'll promise it's more than 5200 lbs. Now, lets say there's a chuck hole or any other kind of road hazard that you brake hard to avoid and end up hitting, for whatever reason. I think you'd agree that this is as least as likely a scenario as those posited by others as reasons an upgraded SRW truck is unsafe.
Your oem dually in that situation is very likely to blow a tire, or break a rim on the steer axle causing serious handling difficulties. My "real" truck tire in load range G, mounted on wheels rated at 5,000 lbs each (nearly twice the strength of the oem wheel) could absorb that impact easily without damage. At 80 psi, my steer tires are rated at 3970 lbs. each, for a combined total of 7940 lbs. which gives a safety margin of nearly 2750 pounds or nearly 53% over the max allowable static steer axle weight.
Now which truck is safer? You have an extra set of tires on the back, the outers of which generally support the un-maintained inners when they blow out from under inflation because it's difficult to check them. That assumes that the outers haven't been repeatedly curbed and bruised to the point they have no where near their original strength.
The point is that there is more than one way to look at things. I'm not saying your dually is patently unsafe even though I can point out deficiencies in it that my upgraded SRW does not have. I think one is as safe as the other, assuming the modifications to the SRW needed to take it to higher standards have been properly performed.
OK... I am starting to shop for a dually and looking at the 2008. Unless I misread something the dually GVWR is 10,500# assuming that the extra two wheels weigh something... I'm not convinced the dually is spec'd stock to carry much more than the SRW? Logically 4 tires is better than 2 but as noted why aren't two better tires better than 4 less capable?
I am not questioning if my truck can handle my 5ver. Dave is. I am also not comparing setups. Simply thinking about safety and when I haul the family out to the camp ground I would rather be on the side of caution when I am heading down the highway in my monster knowing I can do it stock, and any upgrade is a plus.
I am sure there are tons of things I need to look into for my setup. Next year I will be doing alot of upgrades (had truck since March 08) Def gunna do a exhaust break and many other upgrades. Thank you for the heads up on the tire info, they will def be on the list to be upgraded.
davelinde wrote: OK... I am starting to shop for a dually and looking at the 2008. Unless I misread something the dually GVWR is 10,500# assuming that the extra two wheels weigh something... I'm not convinced the dually is spec'd stock to carry much more than the SRW? Logically 4 tires is better than 2 but as noted why aren't two better tires better than 4 less capable?
hmmm, just looked at a new 3500 DRW Dodge/Cummins new regeared G56 and the GVWR was 12500 with 9350 RAWR. Don't know which new 3500/F350 DRW your going to look at but GM had dropped thir RAWR to 8250 which isn't setting to well with commercial haulers using these trucks. Check out what Ford GAWR are as in the past they have had some big RAWR numbers which is always popular with legal commercial haulers.
Jim
'03 2500 Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs
'97 Park Avanue 28' with two slides
davelinde wrote: OK... I am starting to shop for a dually and looking at the 2008. Unless I misread something the dually GVWR is 10,500# assuming that the extra two wheels weigh something... I'm not convinced the dually is spec'd stock to carry much more than the SRW? Logically 4 tires is better than 2 but as noted why aren't two better tires better than 4 less capable?
hmmm, just looked at a new 3500 DRW Dodge/Cummins new regeared G56 and the GVWR was 12500 with 9350 RAWR. Don't know which new 3500/F350 DRW your going to look at but GM had dropped thir RAWR to 8250 which isn't setting to well with commercial haulers using these trucks. Check out what Ford GAWR are as in the past they have had some big RAWR numbers which is always popular with legal commercial haulers.
Jim
I had pulled up the Megacab since it would be easier to sell a new truck to DW if she got cab space too. I think I'll go get a brochure since the on-line stuff is giving me a headache... tows this, grosses this, then configure and price and the capacities drop.
chrizg wrote: My thought on the subject is safety. Why take the risk with your family or other people on the road trying to tow this trailer with a truck that is in question if it can handle it or not.
Is the risk worth trying to beef up the truck that in the end isn't designed to haul a 5th that large?
Well, lets consider that for a moment. Your position apparently is that since the truck wasn't originally certified for a particular weight, that it cannot reasonable be re-configured to handle additional weight safely. That's about it in a nutshell, right? On it's face, that might even appear logical.
However, when faced with the facts about the various components in more heavily rated models that are identical to those in the OP's truck, that those systems not up to those standards have been upgraded to at least those specs and beyond, what say you then?
I specifically like to point out that the oem wheels on a light duty (one ton) dually are very weak compared to those on my 3/4 ton, as are the individual tires. On that Megacab shown below the text in that post, the front axle rating is 5200 lbs. It probably carries close to 5,000 lbs there w/no load in the bed -- perhaps a bit more. The oem dually wheels, singled out, are only rated for either 2600 lbs
or 2800 lbs, I can't remember which. Lets give it the benefit of the doubt and say it's 2800 lbs. That's only 5600 lbs total which means that the static load on those wheels are at more than 89% of their rated capacity. Loaded, and under heavy braking, with the weight transfer, how heavy do you think that steer axle is?
I'll promise it's more than 5200 lbs. Now, lets say there's a chuck hole or any other kind of road hazard that you brake hard to avoid and end up hitting, for whatever reason. I think you'd agree that this is as least as likely a scenario as those posited by others as reasons an upgraded SRW truck is unsafe.
Your oem dually in that situation is very likely to blow a tire, or break a rim on the steer axle causing serious handling difficulties. My "real" truck tire in load range G, mounted on wheels rated at 5,000 lbs each (nearly twice the strength of the oem wheel) could absorb that impact easily without damage. At 80 psi, my steer tires are rated at 3970 lbs. each, for a combined total of 7940 lbs. which gives a safety margin of nearly 2750 pounds or nearly 53% over the max allowable static steer axle weight.
Now which truck is safer? You have an extra set of tires on the back, the outers of which generally support the un-maintained inners when they blow out from under inflation because it's difficult to check them. That assumes that the outers haven't been repeatedly curbed and bruised to the point they have no where near their original strength.
The point is that there is more than one way to look at things. I'm not saying your dually is patently unsafe even though I can point out deficiencies in it that my upgraded SRW does not have. I think one is as safe as the other, assuming the modifications to the SRW needed to take it to higher standards have been properly performed.
Well said pupeperson. I bet you even know how to spell "judgment".
I'll never understand why all these people who think the sticker is the fifth gospel refuse to discuss the meaning of the most important thing written on the sticker "as shipped".
2006 2500HD CC SB 4X4 Duramax/Allison
Prodigy/16K Reese/265E Tires/Bilstein Shocks
RM Active Suspension/RDS 60gal Toolbox combo
davelinde wrote: OK... I am starting to shop for a dually and looking at the 2008. Unless I misread something the dually GVWR is 10,500# assuming that the extra two wheels weigh something... I'm not convinced the dually is spec'd stock to carry much more than the SRW? Logically 4 tires is better than 2 but as noted why aren't two better tires better than 4 less capable?
hmmm, just looked at a new 3500 DRW Dodge/Cummins new regeared G56 and the GVWR was 12500 with 9350 RAWR. Don't know which new 3500/F350 DRW your going to look at but GM had dropped thir RAWR to 8250 which isn't setting to well with commercial haulers using these trucks. Check out what Ford GAWR are as in the past they have had some big RAWR numbers which is always popular with legal commercial haulers.
Jim
I had pulled up the Megacab since it would be easier to sell a new truck to DW if she got cab space too. I think I'll go get a brochure since the on-line stuff is giving me a headache... tows this, grosses this, then configure and price and the capacities drop.
I looked at the 3500 DRW Megacab on a lot. The sticker on the door said not to exceed payload of 2800lbs. The sticker on my sig 3/4 says 2400lbs. If you want to tow something heavy and are concerned about the sticker on the door then you do not want a Megacab. The door sticker on Quadcab DRW equipped the same as the Megacab had a door sticker payload of over 4500lbs. That extra foot in the back seat sure cost a lot of payload on the door sticker.
davelinde wrote: OK... I am starting to shop for a dually and looking at the 2008. Unless I misread something the dually GVWR is 10,500# assuming that the extra two wheels weigh something... I'm not convinced the dually is spec'd stock to carry much more than the SRW? Logically 4 tires is better than 2 but as noted why aren't two better tires better than 4 less capable?
hmmm, just looked at a new 3500 DRW Dodge/Cummins new regeared G56 and the GVWR was 12500 with 9350 RAWR. Don't know which new 3500/F350 DRW your going to look at but GM had dropped thir RAWR to 8250 which isn't setting to well with commercial haulers using these trucks. Check out what Ford GAWR are as in the past they have had some big RAWR numbers which is always popular with legal commercial haulers.
Jim
I had pulled up the Megacab since it would be easier to sell a new truck to DW if she got cab space too. I think I'll go get a brochure since the on-line stuff is giving me a headache... tows this, grosses this, then configure and price and the capacities drop.
I looked at the 3500 DRW Megacab on a lot. The sticker on the door said not to exceed payload of 2800lbs. The sticker on my sig 3/4 says 2400lbs. If you want to tow something heavy and are concerned about the sticker on the door then you do not want a Megacab. The door sticker on Quadcab DRW equipped the same as the Megacab had a door sticker payload of over 4500lbs. That extra foot in the back seat sure cost a lot of payload on the door sticker.
There are definitely inconsistencies in the ratings. I assume and agree your being a little glib about that last comment and I agree with your extended meaning.
I really have enjoyed this discussion. You folks have given nice explanations of the trucks and pureperson thanks for your time and effort in those long posts. Very well explained.
I have a 2008 MegaCab CTD 2500 and I believe it is one of the most capable tow vehicles I've ever seen in this class. The tires are the weak spot but the exhaust brake and the new auto tranny are just amazing. Downshifting pulling a load with that ex brake on is like shifting a manual tranny yourself. I've never seen a tranny and exhaust brake operate so well in tandem.
A little upgradeing, as pureperson suggested, and man this truck becomes a real mean hauler.
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