ACE, I have a pamphlet from the Good Sam Club that's titled "Stay on the right side of the Law" and in this pamphlet in the towing section only 3 States do not require brakes when towing vehicles: Kansas, Missouri, and Oregon. All other States have weight restrictions from the vehicle being towed from 1,500 lbs. to 10,000 lbs. Most States are around 3,000 lbs. I don't know if my info is outdated or not for the 50 States laws change all the time. But I recommend that you do your homework and protect yourself. You don't want to be in an accident and be unlawful you could lose everything you own in a law suit. John
driveby wrote: run down a hill and stop as fast as you can at the bottom. Repeat exact trip except put a 25# backpack on. Which was more work to stop, which hurt your knees more? nuf said.
however, you need the right brake setup and you need it setup right. bad setup = false confidence = accident (you hit someone or something or you burn up the brakes of the TOAD)
Excellent post. Things like Brake Buddy or other branded equivalents and anything else that does not have a direct connection to the coach brake system to provide instantaneous and proportional actuation of the toad brakes is providing false confidence. How do I know? I have one and have used it many, many times. When I finally realized how woefully inadequate it was (with all it's drawbacks) I realized how unsafe we were and how I had wasted of money on it when for a few hundred more I could have had a system that actually did the job.
I retired the Brake Buddy and I installed a system that is air actuated and fully proportional on my gas coach with 4 wheel disc brakes and the toad. Coach stopped in half the distance it did with the Brake Buddy. I moved the system over to my DP and also noticed a substantial difference although not quite as much as with the gas coach as it is a MUCH heavier coach.
If you are a careful driver odds are that you'll be fine without a good toad braking system but there may be that ONE time it would save your life. Not to mention how it makes the coach easier to drive.
BTW, you have to talk about specific applications when talking about things like this. All coaches are not equal. The toad is a relatively high percentage of the class A gas rig weight. It was marginally unsafe to drive without the supplementary braking system. On the other hand the DP hardly knows the toad is there but the stopping distances are still shorter with the toad braking system installed. For me, it's a requirement for the gas coach but it's a safety enhancement for the DP.
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Ron
N6QL
2002 36' Country Coach Allure 350HP Cummins
2001 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1978 Cessna T210M My Flying My website
full-timer wrote: I was in an accident 10 years ago,rear ended a vechile my towed didn't have auxillary brakes. The state police or my insurance company didn't asked or checked to see if the towed had the auxillary brakes.
As with everything in life, I base most decisions on the fact that I don't want to be left uttering the phrase "If only I had..."
Me (39)Growing older but not up.
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2002 Suzuki XL7
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full-timer wrote: I was in an accident 10 years ago,rear ended a vechile my towed didn't have auxillary brakes. The state police or my insurance company didn't asked or checked to see if the towed had the auxillary brakes.
Joe
Okay,
and
The Accident
was Still Your Fault...
as I have said before, my first statement to the investigating officer when somebody rear ends me is "doesn't that unit require brakes on the toad, the owner's manual sez if over 1,500 lbs. etc."
lots of other questions to spur the officers imagination, doesn't a unit that weight require a special drivers license? brakeaway unit, etc. etc.
bumpy
When we were shopping for RV's we asked every salesperson the same question: "Do we need a braking system on our towing vehicle?" The answer was always the same: "I've never used one, don't think they matter."
We towed a Rubicon around 5000 miles last year and I swear, I never knew it was back there (40,000 lb. RV). Now we have a CRV, which is lighter and are contemplating getting a brake buddy. From what I understand, the brake buddy doesn't really "hit" the brake in an emergency situation, but merely applies braking force, so with one of these systems, in an emergency, it would be like lightly applying the brake, not locking up the wheels.
Some brake systems actually use the power brake systems of the car to apply actual force for stopping, those perhaps would help in an emergency situation but the those that don't won't do more than keep your toad from adding a small force component during an emergency situation. I would doubt if it would even take one foot of stopping distance off during a panic stop.
I think that the best reasons to have one of these non-power systems would be:
1. Break-away safety
2. Driving through customs to get into Canada.
Other than that, you'll be fooling yourself it you think it will actually help stop your 20 ton RV in an emergency situation.
2007 Mountain Aire 4528
2006 CRV SE
Based in Memphis area
Think about this, Without them the total weight of the toad would have beem pushing on the tow bar and very likely the toad would have been into the MH and us into the truck infront of us and maybe DEAD..............
riggarob wrote:
hottubkid wrote: I'm not going to get into this again but I will tell you that when I was in Texas and the semi in front of me locked up his brakes doing about 65 I sure was happy when I did not hit him. When I stopped believe I had about a foot and a half between him and me and all my tires were smoking. I believe without the additional braking I would have hit him and DW was in the front seat. This has been talked about so much and an opion is your a fool if you don't have them. Or just don't care
Think about this (I have). If you aren't set up EXACTLY right on your toad brakes, you are actually trying to stop a 20 to 50K lb coach w/ the brakes on your toad. This, in fact, will try to pull your hitch system right off of the coach. Yes, yes yes, I have a US Gear on my Saturn Vue, and I pull w/ a 42' DP (if it weren't for the camera, I wouldn't even know it was back there), BUT, I believe everything has to be exactly right to not break something. I'm really started to get annoyed by the guys that say you're stupid, or cheap if you don't have a supplemental braking system. I've towed w/ and w/o, and have not noticed a difference. And believe me , last week on 95, in NC, we had an accident right in front of us, and we stopped better than some of the cars in front of us.(I hadn't yet set up the US gear, to the new DP, 'cause I'm waiting for the adapter/connector from US gear, for the pre-wired Freightliner chassis). These are facts, NOT speculations.
It's funny that this issue comes up on the largest and smallest RV's. Both small pop up trailers and the big coaches.
We actually give the same advice when asked do we need brakes on something we tow?
Do a test and see your actual braking distance with and without the towed object. If it's more than 10% longer towing then brakes are needed.
Why 10% well from all our talks with brake companies, over the years, they give the same response. Our systems are designed so that with a towed object braking the stopping distance will increase by no more than 10%.
The other thing that comes up regularly is self propelled and tow vehicle makers saying that their braking systems are designed for the GVWR of the vehicle, not the GCWR. So if you weight your combination and it comes up over the GVWR then brakes are needed.
Ace1001 wrote: I'm towing a Grand Cherokee without brakes. Hear a lot about insurance companies not covering accidents if you don't have auxillary brakes on tow vehicle. If that is the case, why don't they make it clear in their policies. Also, have not heard of any states aggressively enforcing any laws regarding same. Is their actual experience out there that would suggest this is a bad practice? I bet there are a lot of folks towing without.
I tow WITHOUT additional braking and I HAVE TESTED MINE to see what my stopping distance really is at HIGHER speeds. "I"..dont need them for my particular rig setup! ( period)
With that said I WOULD NOT tow anything heavier than my Liberty without some sort of brakes but Im not about to lay out $1000 for most of tham that are a total joke and the only thing that MOST of them do is give the drive a warm and fussy feeling.
This junk sold that use a pendulum swinging weight are JUNK and dont even make a decent "wheel chock" because of the plastic housing their are in!!!
IF I were towing something heavier the ONLY system Id have installed is the "M&G" system that operated directly from my air brakes.
I would NOT recommend towing something as heavy as that GC using your present coach without some sort of supplemental brakes!
2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty
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