...........Take an already fuel efficient , diesel powered truck , add A S--t load of extra batteries , big electric motor , extra transmission components , a godawful amount of Electronics to monitor and control all this UNnecessary equipment , and then call it fuel efficient . What a load of******that is ! , jf
david_42 wrote: You only get better mileage in hybrids when you reduce the size of the main engine. So, if you were willing to cut back to 100 hp max, you'd see an improvement. The diesel hybrids that are being used get about 40% better city mileage, but very little improvement on the highway. Takes raw power to push a 40,000 pound box at 80!
I understand what your saying, but I have to disagree about the size of the engine. Electric assist motors we're banned by motor sports because they were an un-fair advantage. They got more power and used less fuel.
SoCalDesertRider wrote: I would call a diesel-electric locomotive a hybrid. Think of a hybrid. What is it? It's a small internal combustion engine that drives a generator that powers an electric motor that powers the car. That is, for all practical purposes, how a locomotive operates. I would call the diesel-electric power systems in locomotives and ships the pioneers of the use of hybrid technology that resulted in hybrid cars.
In any event, if a diesel hybrid pickup or suv can be built for public or personal use, I'm all for it. Gasoline hybrids are being made. I dont see why a diesel hybrid is so out of the question. It's only a different fuel powering the internal combustion engine.
If the generator provides enough juice for the electric motor in continuous operation, it doesn't matter about the batteries.
Whoa, you're way off base. Nothing small about the engines in a locomotive. They're the biggest one or two engines that can fit there. I've never heard anyone else call them a hybrid, just diesel-electric.
I've worked on steam turbo-electric drive ships. These were WWII tankers that had electric drive because the country could not make enough gear sets*. The main turbine powered a generator, the generator powered a 6000 hp main propulsion motor when underway, and powered cargo pump motors in port when discharging cargo. These were less efficient (higher fuel consumption) than a geared turbine ship with direct geared drive to the propeller shaft, but it was the best we could do at the time. It wasn't a hybrid, either. Some modern passenger ships are diesel-electric drive for a couple of reasons, mainly for layout so they can cram more machinery into tighter spaces and have more passenger rooms to sell.
The point is that the hybrid vehicle relies on both the engine and the battery electric motor for power when it needs a lot of power. When the batteries are depleted, all you have left is a smallish engine, and that won't please most folks towing a heavy load up hill. Electric drive is very different. It is designed with the engine providing full power to go as fast as the guy buying the fuel wants it to go. The generator is just a different means of power transmission.
*I just learned that the U.S. can't even build the wind turbines that are beginning to generate substantial amount of our electricity. We can build about half of a unit. We can't even build the gearing. We've lost that much industrial capability.
I agree the diesel engines in locomotives are huge, but much smaller than they would have to be if the train was powered solely by diesel engines. The term 'small' is all relative here. Whatever you want to name them, the idea is the same- use an internal combustion engine to power a generator which powers an electric motor that drives the vehicle. If 'hybrid' doesn't taste good in your vocabulary, that's fine, use whatever name you like. It tastes fine in mine.
Anyone remember or are you familiar with WW2 submarines? They had diesel power for running on the service and massive batteries for running submerged and silent.
The Nazis even came up with the "snorkel" so that they could stay submergered and draw air down and run their diesels to charge their massive battery pack.
Anyway, this splitting hairs over what is trully "hybrid" is a little redundant IMO. First of all, the very definition of hybrid means;
From Merriam Webster Dictionary
Main Entry: hy·brid
Pronunciation: \?h?-br?d\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin hybrida
Date: 1601
1: an offspring of two animals or plants of different races, breeds, varieties, species, or genera
2: a person whose background is a blend of two diverse cultures or traditions
3 a: something heterogeneous in origin or composition : composite b: something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function
*********
Unless Merriam Websters is behind the times, I would say that a diesel/electric locomotive is and would be defined as a form of hybridized power, even though the internal combustion powerplant is massive in comparison to what a Prius or Honda Civic hybrid utilize to charge their respective battery packs.
As mentioned earlier, WW2 submarines utilized a hybridized system of power. In essence they did keep their batteries charged via their diesel engines during normal surface running. In most cases, submerged, they ran strictly on battery supplies......I would assume that prop shafts were driven by large electric motors then. Now maybe they had a way of changing their mode of direct drive to the prop shafts when using diesel power and didn't utilize a final electric motor driven by a generator that was driven by the diesel powerplant, but I'm sure some Navy vets could fill in the details there.
Hybrid seems to mean the merging of or combination of two or more. So in the case of hybrid power, I would say that any vehicle that is moved in water, rails highway, or the air, or is used as a stationary powered tool that has two modes or sources of power that work both together and possibly separately to power the vehicle/too, would be defined as hybridized power.
* This post was
edited 05/17/08 01:23pm by eightballsidepocket *
Regards, Eightballsidepocket
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Gasoline hybrids are being made. I dont see why a diesel hybrid is so out of the question. It's only a different fuel powering the internal combustion engine.
