Was prepping Our Artic Fox TC this morning for an overnight trip to WV to visit our youngest son's family. Noticed that the one piece fiberglass panel that wraps around the nose, under the bed area and down the front has de-laminated almost the entire area under the bed.
The way it jiggled when touched, I thought there was a pool of water on the top side causing the problem. Drilled a 3/16" hole to drain but no water came out. On further examination I found a crack beginning at one edge on the nose.
Any suggestions on how to pull this apart and fix it? Needless to say I cancelled the trip.
2003 GMC 3500 DRW D/A
2003 Citation 32' Sky Deck TT
2003 Artic Fox #1140
Rick & Kathy, My best friend and wife for 36yrs
Pepe (our furry child)
I used to fix delaminated areas on surfboards buy opening a hole by the stringer and pouring thinned laminating resin under the fiberglass, then put the board flat with a weight on it. After it cured, I'd do it to the other side of the stringer.
If you feel you can apply this technique to yours, that 3/16 hole you drilled will be your nemesis. The adhesive on all tapes will be dissolved by the solvents in the resin. But a hole at the bottom might be neccessary to allow the resin to drop all the way down.
6 of one, have a dozen of the other.
good luck
Call AF and ask them if they are willing to do anything about it. They have fixed a lot of older rigs for different reasons.
Don and Sarah
'03 F350 6.0 auto DRW 4X4
2003 A990S Arctic Fox
Stablelift, superhitch to tow toys.
Jeeps (one or the other, 1957 CJ6, 1983 CJ8, 2006 LJ Rubicon) on a trailer.
Not sure how AF puts their campers together but that panel might not actually be structural and could just be a decorative cover that is glued (not actually laminated) in place. Proper repair will probably entail removing the trim along the edges, the front cab-over window (if so equipped) and loosening the panel from the roof seam at the top. Then peel it back (with several helpers of course) clean, dry and reapply appropriate adhesive. Then carefully stick the panel back in place and reassemble everything.
That being said, if the panel is truly just decorative then the fact that it is loose won't hurt anything and it can be left as is. Though the crack (which sounds like the water intrusion point that led to it coming loose) should obviously be fixed.
A repair that is between these to extremes would be to drill a series of small holes and inject a quick drying adhesive in several appropriately placed locations to tack it somewhat back into place.
2007 F350,HighLine,SC,LB,4x4.6.0/Auto
2007 Outfitter Apex9.5, 270W solar, SolarBoost 2000e, 2 H2000i's, 2000W inverter, 2 20lb LP on slide out tray, 4 Lifeline AGM batteries, Tundra fridge
1995 Bounder 28' ClassA sold
1991 Jamboree 21' ClassC sold
SEMPER FI
IIRC from posts here in the past Arctic Fox uses a thin paper between the filon/fiberglass and the frame and once this paper gets wet it delaminates. Sadly this is how nearly all filon TC's are made and why they delaminate because they all leak or will leak sooner or later.
Common sense would see the flawed thinking in this regard but in the RV world common sense is one of the rarest things.
IIRC it will cost about $2-3K to fix it and if it leaks again you will be out the same.
Knowing the condition of your TC seals/siding will save you grief, damage, and most of all money. Check your seals at least twice a year and if you live where it is wet a lot more often will allow you to catch a potential leak before it gets too big. The design of all TC's is very sorry when it comes to leaks. It took 50 years for the industry to figure out that the cabover windows were a problem. Finally now most don't come with windows there.
If you are handy you could fix it yourself or you could look into your RV insurance they can and do help if your covered.
Allen
2005 Ford F-350 CC Dually 6.0L Diesel 4x4 King Ranch loaded, Supersprings, Coolant filter, Oilguard bypass filter.
You apparently don't have the only delaminating Arctic-Fox. Mother's Day weekend while we were fueling in a Wal-Mart station. We saw an Arctic-Fox camper on a GMC DRW pickup that was parked in the store's lot. On the side of the camper it had: "ARCTIC-SUCKS" in those 3" black stick-on boat/mailbox letters. Going from the words it had a arrow fashioned from what looked like the same cut up stick-on letters pointing towards a very large obvious bubble and 2 smaller ones. Didn't see the owners as they were probably in the Wal-Mart and after fueling, we left....
2004 Chev 2500HD D/A crew cab LB 4X4 - Air Bags - Loaded
915 Lance Camper with 2'X 8' rear porch (my own design n build)
29 ft Carri-lite 5th wheel - 1 large slide - specially built
36 ft Carriage Commander - 3 axle 5th wheel - 2 slides -NOW SOLD-
Quote: Arctic Fox uses a thin paper between the filon/fiberglass and the frame and once this paper gets wet it delaminates. Sadly this is how nearly all filon TC's are made...
It's possible that the Filon used in many campers is Lauan backed (a plywood made from low cost mahogany), and as the poster speculates, it may have become damp/wet, and let go.
I think that Filon delamination may be the Achilles’ heel of most of our Filon-clad RVs (over x time).
Be aware that there are 2 types of Filon: Lauan-backed and non-backed Filon. The non-backed Filon is quite pricey and quite thick gauged, and is only used by a very small handful of RV manufacturers (Outfitter being one of them). The advantage of not having the intermediary of wood, is that glue can bind directly to structure, bypassing a potential additional material that could fail under right conditions.
I've thought a lot about approaches to repairing Filon delaminating from under-belly of the TC cabover:
IMO: I would rent a mini cam (like a SeeSnake micro inspection camera, with 3~6 foot cable) and feed it's cable through the hole you drilled and have a look-see. If there is water in there, dry it out using a shopvac with Ductaped clear plastic tube over your drilled hole and shopvac pipe (drill a second hole in a line where drip rail will go (see below), to draw air from) then run vacuum for a few minutes every few hours on a dry day (if you are working outside). Inspect for dryness with camera.
Now, if you opt to repair yourself: buy RV drip edge rail, cut to width to fit completely across under-belly of cabover (essentially strapping delaminated Filon back to under-belly), using Sikaflex, caulk the bottom of drop rail, using injectable epoxy, inject epoxy into the 2 holes you previously drilled, then screw it into the supporting members across the under-belly (this means knowing precisely where the structural members are (if none, forget this method!)), then affix drip rail strip under, brace with something like several adjustable paint or drywall support poles, and drill the appropriate holes through drip rail and Filon over support members to apply stainless-steel screws through (see Filon application notes for drilling; there is a very precise method for drilling and fastening into Filon!! Or, you can cause crazing after screw insertion!). Then, tuck the rubber cap back over drip rails to protect screws from water intrusion. This should hold the delaminated Filon form sagging and further delamination. You may need to space 2 drip rails to under-belly if you have a vast area of delamination.
Now, you must address the cause of moisture infiltration! Recaulk the entire front of your TC and all windows (if you have front windows) and marker light lens gaskets.
This is only a suggestion: I have not done this procedure myself, it is only theoretical. Think hard about using this approach before undertaking it. The only benefits to doing this approach would be: far and a way less costly than an RV shop job; not necessary to send your TC away to the factory and loose possibly months of use of it; knowing you did the job yourself, and personal satisfaction that it will in all likelihood not delaminate again; even if moisture gets in there years down the road.
Filon crazing/cracking along the edge of it's panels (usually where the drip-rails are attached to finish corners):
I've done some research into this. What I've been able to determine is that some RV manufacturers failed to use the Filon trimming method detailed in the engineering application notes supplied by the Filon manufacturer.
It is extremely important to cut sheets of Filon using an appropriately-sharp router tooling, at a specified cutting speed (not too fast, not too slow), and to replace the router cutting bit, on the assembly-line, very often. If the bit gets too dull, the RV manufacturer runs the risk of ruining an entire batch of RVs, as the poorly-cut Filon jagged edge will craze, absolutely guaranteed. Additionally, there is a very clear set of instructions on how to drill through the Filon, and how to torque-down the screws going into the Filon. If this procedure is not followed precisely, every out-of-spec fastening point on the entire RV unit will craze, too. Contact the Filon manufacturer for these application notes. I know I have the files somewhere in my numerous hard drives (saved there back in 2005); I'll try and dig them out.
Good luck,
Silver-
* This post was
edited 05/20/08 10:55am by silversand *
I agree that you've most likely got water in there, and you have to address it or your wood will rot (assuming 2003 models were still wood structure - I know AF changed to aluminum at some point...though there is still wood, and it's likely the luan that delaminated). I have a 2001 AF1150, and had to open it up the winter before last for this very problem. It took ~400 manhours of work, because my rot had been going on for a while and I found more damage than I expected....all the way to my front passenger jack stand, which I am convinced would eventually have failed if I had not caught it.
I like Silversand's idea of additional cross support, and basically used that when I reassembled the undercab. I didn't use the epoxy, as I had the whole undercab open, and could access it well with contact cement. My AF1150 originally had two cross pieces undercab. They were fastened into the cabinetry on the sides, but just through the luan in the under-the-bed area, if I remember properly. Now I've got 3 cross-pieces, which are adequately fastened all the way across. If the luan is delaminated, I think getting good injectable epoxy coverage between the filon and the substrate will be difficult.
And the key, just to echo what others have written above....you've got to stop the water from getting in. Water is insidious. AllenF is right...common sense would say if the RV manufacturers are going to use luan, which delaminates so easily, and lag bolts and non-stainless staples, then why don't they put extra effort into making sure that water can't get in?
I wrote a lengthy post probably around Feb 07 if you need more details.
Finally, if you've got a trip planned, go. Your camper won't fall apart or anything right now. Good luck.
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