This one always gets me! This report was written by that known idiot David Pimentel who is laughed at by scientists around the world for his cheating & deceit! Besides using out-of-date figures like crop yield (even after he updated his report last time!) he includes the energy from the sun to grow the corn and doesn’t include the value of the byproducts! If ever there was a lying fool it’s that guy!
Ethanol is well-proven to produce more energy than it takes to make it = 1.67 to 1. (For every 100 BTUs of energy used to make ethanol, 167 BTUs of ethanol is produced.) I What is r-e-a-l-l-y important is who cares about the energy from the sun or electricity needed for making ethanol, we gotta think about the transportation energy produced from the process which is somewhere over a 600% gain
I am not so sure that I would trust the American Corn Growers Association in cahoots with the USDA to produce an unbiased report. The Corn Growers lobby is run by BIG Agriculture Business's. They have huge lobbies in Washington. To think that their analysis is any better than Pimentels is a huge step to take. I would not say that Pimentals study has been debunked it has just been challanged by big business whose interests are not necessarily the interests of the country at large.
Probably, the real figures are somewhere in between. I know the Universtiy of Nebraska at Lincoln has studied this problem too. I am a product of those schools and I would suspect their figures too as they are funded by Big Business Corn Growers. There are not many MOM an POP farms left.
The page I linked showed studies from the USDA, University of Nebraska, Argonne National Laboratory (sponsored by the DOE) and Michigan State University for starters; here is another recent one from MIT. There are also many others from around the world.
You are not really buying into that idiot and fraud David Pimentals study when it has been shown he uses the energy from the sun and does not include the value of the many byproducts are you? Methodologies in analysis need acceptable peer reviews and he has none! Every peer reviewed and peer accepted study done around the world shows the opposite!
Looking for any information available on Del Rey "Sky Lounge" and Kamp King slide-ins for preservation/restoration projects.
I have the same engine as the person who started this thread. I experience very similar results of 15-16MPG without ethanol and 10-12MPG with 10% ethanol. These results can be consistently reproduced.
Jeepers92 wrote: We drove our convertibile on a "top down" vacation 2 years ago. It included a trip across Illinois to Branson Missouri. I keep immaculate records on my fuel economy. We averaged 24 mpg on the entire trip except for the fuel we purchased in Illinois which dropped the mpg to 17 mpg.
The cost was the same per gallon as regular gas.
I have explained this twice in this thread already but since some do not read every post I will explain it again …
There is something else affecting your mileage as there is no-way 10% ethanol was responsible for that kind of drop. 10% ethanol (E10) will account for a 1-2% drop in mileage, *not* 25% or more like you guys are claiming!
Gasoline contains 114,132 BTU’s per gallon, Ethanol contains 83,263
1,141,320 BTU’s in ten gallons of gasoline
1,110,451 BTU’s in ten gallons of E10
There is no-way you could lose 25+% of your mileage or even close with 30,869 less BTU’s. It’s i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e!
10 gallons of E10 = 9 gallons of gasoline and 1 gallon of ethanol. You guys are claiming ten gallons of E10 in your tank resulted in a drop so substantial you somehow not only lost the BTU value of the ethanol, but also the BTU value of a couple gallons on gasoline? Think about it for a second and you will see why I am saying this is impossible!
Here in Kalefornia studies were conducted and it was determined that there was no need to Oxygenate year round. Only during the winter was needed. The EPA mandated that we stay Oxygenated year round.....
I see a 1-2 mpg difference between 10% ethanol or MTBE and straight gas and that's a fact.
Jim
94 F-250 ex cab,460, E40D tranny,airbags w/pump,bilstein shocks, 2000 Bigfoot 9.6 2500 camper, Progressive Dynamics 9260, Trimetric monitor and an eu2000i honda genny.
Wife and Molly- Ausie,Queensland healer
"Marine officials say potential for explosion exists"
Fortunatly, my boat has a steel tank. But I have noticed separating ethanol in the bottom of my portable tanks, so I'm considering paying a visit to one of the distributors that can sell straight gasoline. It's legal to sell as long as it doesn't go into an on the road vehicle tank.
"Marine officials say potential for explosion exists"
Fortunatly, my boat has a steel tank. But I have noticed separating ethanol in the bottom of my portable tanks, so I'm considering paying a visit to one of the distributors that can sell straight gasoline. It's legal to sell as long as it doesn't go into an on the road vehicle tank.
Thanks alot for the link, didn't think of the E10******screwing up my small engines..Chainsaw and weedeater..Thanks to the the Republik of Oregon politicians for voting THEIR wallet, not our best interest. I would at least like to have the option of using the stuff, either because I am concerned about the environment, or because it economically makes sense, or whatever.
Solarfry wrote: I've noticed that non carrying mileage has dropped from 14 mpg city with non-ethanol laced gasoline to 10mpg city with 10% ethanol. My highway mileage has also dropped from 17 mpg non-ethanol to 14.6 with 10% ethanol.
I cringe to think what it will be with the camper on top this summer.
I feel sorry for those owning older boats and trucks. I hear it clogs them up fiercely.
There is something else affecting your mileage as there is no-way 10% ethanol was responsible for that kind of drop. 10% ethanol (E10) will account for a 1-2% drop in mileage, *not* 25%! That is literally unfeasible so you need too look for the real cause.
Gasoline contains 114,132 BTU’s per gallon, Ethanol contains 83,263
1,141,320 BTU’s in ten gallons of gasoline
1,110,451 BTU’s in ten gallons of E10
There is no-way you could lose 25% of your mileage with 30,869 less BTU’s. It’s impossible!
Also, as far as allegedly “clogging” up fuel systems …. ethanol cleans your fuel system …. running E10 will keep it as clean as the day it was new.
After keeping a log for six months and 5 different Vehicles I go along with the the first post. Still trying to figure out how they are helping us to save oil. Looks like another way to screw the public and the government is low enough or dumb enough to help them do it. Out of the vehicles we have kept up with the mileage very's but all of them get 3 to over 5 miles less per gallon on E 87.
Plus it is running up the price of food not only to move it but to grow it. Corn go's up so cost more to feed meat and any thing that eats. The only one it is good for is people that own oil stocks.
"Marine officials say potential for explosion exists"
Fortunatly, my boat has a steel tank. But I have noticed separating ethanol in the bottom of my portable tanks, so I'm considering paying a visit to one of the distributors that can sell straight gasoline. It's legal to sell as long as it doesn't go into an on the road vehicle tank.
Thanks alot for the link, didn't think of the E10******screwing up my small engines..Chainsaw and weedeater..Thanks to the the Republik of Oregon politicians for voting THEIR wallet, not our best interest. I would at least like to have the option of using the stuff, either because I am concerned about the environment, or because it economically makes sense, or whatever.
I have read Ethanol is bad for seasonal use engines for many reaons.
Also, the first 6 months I had my (then new) 2001 Yamaha ATV the needle valve got stuck twice. Turns out the needle valve was made of aluminum and the ethanol was corroding it. I started using non-ethanol exclusively and haven't had a problem since.
I have the same engine as the person who started this thread. I experience very similar results of 15-16MPG without ethanol and 10-12MPG with 10% ethanol. These results can be consistently reproduced.
Jeepers92 wrote: We drove our convertibile on a "top down" vacation 2 years ago. It included a trip across Illinois to Branson Missouri. I keep immaculate records on my fuel economy. We averaged 24 mpg on the entire trip except for the fuel we purchased in Illinois which dropped the mpg to 17 mpg.
The cost was the same per gallon as regular gas.
I have explained this twice in this thread already but since some do not read every post I will explain it again …
There is something else affecting your mileage as there is no-way 10% ethanol was responsible for that kind of drop. 10% ethanol (E10) will account for a 1-2% drop in mileage, *not* 25% or more like you guys are claiming!
Gasoline contains 114,132 BTU’s per gallon, Ethanol contains 83,263
1,141,320 BTU’s in ten gallons of gasoline
1,110,451 BTU’s in ten gallons of E10
There is no-way you could lose 25+% of your mileage or even close with 30,869 less BTU’s. It’s i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e!
10 gallons of E10 = 9 gallons of gasoline and 1 gallon of ethanol. You guys are claiming ten gallons of E10 in your tank resulted in a drop so substantial you somehow not only lost the BTU value of the ethanol, but also the BTU value of a couple gallons on gasoline? Think about it for a second and you will see why I am saying this is impossible!
I do think about it every time I check my mileage. Check all the BTU`s you want but gallons in to miles don`t lie. For that matter coal oil, diesel, vegetable oil all have a BTU rating but try to put 10% of any of them in your tank and check you millage yes they can be made to burn with the right set up but a gas engine as we know it is not set up for it. Flash point, atomizing, fuel pressure at the injectors and timing all enter in to what the engine will burn for best mileage changes all of the above but presser when mixed with gas. So in realty your gas all ready cost 4.50 + per gallon. Sort of like a mountain man watering his shin down. You can still get drunk on it but not as drunk. I am sure some on here can understand that.
Or simple is corn works good for shine but not gas.
I can't even describe what I'm thinking and feeling right now regarding this subject along with all the other blunders our legislators and media have so scientifically and intelligently produced.....
"Marine officials say potential for explosion exists"
Fortunatly, my boat has a steel tank. But I have noticed separating ethanol in the bottom of my portable tanks, so I'm considering paying a visit to one of the distributors that can sell straight gasoline. It's legal to sell as long as it doesn't go into an on the road vehicle tank.
Thanks alot for the link, didn't think of the E10******screwing up my small engines..Chainsaw and weedeater..Thanks to the the Republik of Oregon politicians for voting THEIR wallet, not our best interest. I would at least like to have the option of using the stuff, either because I am concerned about the environment, or because it economically makes sense, or whatever.
46% of the nation’s fuel is blended with ethanol. Now that would be literally 100’s of millions of engines running E10 and there are so few problems so far it’s not even worth mentioning!
Offline
