jdubh2 wrote: I hope Ford, GM, and Dodge all go out of business for building cars of poor quality, or get bought out by the foreign competition. People could just as easily bought a Chevy Cobalt or smaller Ford, but they bought a Honda. In college today most teach that buying an American car is a sign of stupidity, that a person did no research into quality, safety, or longevity before making a major purchase and as a result any one brand of Big 3 cars are repo'd more the next three foreign competitors combined--in a time when Toyota outsells GM as a leader. All that BS about "buy American the profit stays here," well prove it. Show me that the GM executives don't buy Italian made $5000 suits or French made million dollar yachts. You can't prove the money stays here because it doesn't. In fact more of the foreign companies make more donations here than the Big 3. The Big 3 have had decades to improve their quality and customer service and they have failed and as a result the companies and their employees will pay for it. I won't be helping them out by purchasing their vehicles, the last 2 I bought were over $30k, more than my truck, and each had multiple problems before 50k miles.
In college they teach about car purchases?? HMMMM..... I am now back in college, taking night classes, and haven't seen the course on buying foreign cars to show higher levels of intelligence. I will have to look for that in the next course catalog.
I hope my old Dodges continue to provide good service and little if any problems like they have for the last 15 years because I is jes' 2 dum to no iny bettur!
2005 Surveyor SV-291 Tows smooth as silk!
1995 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie SLT 4x4 5.9L V8 low miles, It ain't pretty, but it's paid for!
jdubh2 wrote: I hope Ford, GM, and Dodge all go out of business for building cars of poor quality, or get bought out by the foreign competition. People could just as easily bought a Chevy Cobalt or smaller Ford, but they bought a Honda. In college today most teach that buying an American car is a sign of stupidity, that a person did no research into quality, safety, or longevity before making a major purchase and as a result any one brand of Big 3 cars are repo'd more the next three foreign competitors combined--in a time when Toyota outsells GM as a leader.
I hope you lose your job too sir.
I am in college today, and the only people who still believe that Foreign Manufacturers make better cars than Domestic Manufacturers are those people who walk around with a starbucks in one hand, and a cell phone in the other. Basically, the Yuppie, turned up nose crowd.
You seem to fit this mold perfectly by implying that those who choose to drive a domestic car are somehow not as intellectually intelligent as you perceive yourself to be.
I meant the good colleges, the ones with dorms so their students don't have to live in RVs.
And I guess I shouldn't say I hope they go out of business. I should have phrased it, when they go out of business. GM closes more plants monthly, Ford can't sell any F-series. They both build******and have let the American people down and as a result the Japanese are on top. Toyota sells more worldwide, Honda Civic is #1 here. All of it built by Americans in non-union plants. The UAW will be a thing of the past when they run the Big 3 into the ground and what will be even worse is all the retirees will lose their money as well. It's just a matter of time. WorldCom had 85000 employees, Enron had quite a few, Airlines have went that way and manufacturers such as Plymouth and Oldsmobile are a thing of the past. The Big 3 better get it together or some of you may not have a choice but to buy a "Japanese" car. The Honda Civic is one of the most reliable cars, gets great gas mileage, and costs more than its American counterparts but they are on top because more and more American's see it my way and buy from companies who build cars to last more than the term of their loan or warranty.
Wow. Class act. By the way, the Honda Civic just overtook the Ford F-Series as NUMBER ONE. This doesn't mean that Ford hasn't sold a truck since 2005. If you want to measure intelligence, you should look at a recent news report about people buying Honda Ridgelines as a reaction to gas prices. . . a weak, underpowered, cramped mid-size truck that gets worse fuel economy than full size Tahoe with a V8.
Most people buy on emotion and marketing, not logic. Every car (even the Hyundais and Kias) go 100,000 miles now. If you go to a poor area of town. . . you'll see Ford Taurses, Pontiac Grand Ams, and Chevy Impalas that are still on the road approaching 300,000 miles. The fit and finish is long gone, but the engines and power trains keep rolling along.
You need to spend a little more time learning exactly what these numbers mean before you make such wild statements. You're drawing some mighty big conclusions off of a small amount of data and assuming you understand the entire correlation (R-squared=100) of the change to real world events. Small car sales are up across the board. . . for every company.
I do, however, agree with you on the unions.
* This post was
edited 06/05/08 01:26am by an administrator/moderator *
Hopefully one thread started by a totally uninformed, and seemingly over opinionated person in pursuance of a degree in business practices or otherwise won't turn into another political debate. But then again,,,,,
jdubh2 wrote: I hope Ford, GM, and Dodge all go out of business for building cars of poor quality, or get bought out by the foreign competition. People could just as easily bought a Chevy Cobalt or smaller Ford, but they bought a Honda. In college today most teach that buying an American car is a sign of stupidity, that a person did no research into quality, safety, or longevity before making a major purchase and as a result any one brand of Big 3 cars are repo'd more the next three foreign competitors combined--in a time when Toyota outsells GM as a leader.
I hope you lose your job too sir.
I am in college today, and the only people who still believe that Foreign Manufacturers make better cars than Domestic Manufacturers are those people who walk around with a starbucks in one hand, and a cell phone in the other. Basically, the Yuppie, turned up nose crowd.
You seem to fit this mold perfectly by implying that those who choose to drive a domestic car are somehow not as intellectually intelligent as you perceive yourself to be.
I meant the good colleges, the ones with dorms so their students don't have to live in RVs.
And I guess I shouldn't say I hope they go out of business. I should have phrased it, when they go out of business. GM closes more plants monthly, Ford can't sell any F-series. They both build******and have let the American people down and as a result the Japanese are on top. Toyota sells more worldwide, Honda Civic is #1 here. All of it built by Americans in non-union plants. The UAW will be a thing of the past when they run the Big 3 into the ground and what will be even worse is all the retirees will lose their money as well. It's just a matter of time. WorldCom had 85000 employees, Enron had quite a few, Airlines have went that way and manufacturers such as Plymouth and Oldsmobile are a thing of the past. The Big 3 better get it together or some of you may not have a choice but to buy a "Japanese " car. The Honda Civic is one of the most reliable cars, gets great gas mileage, and costs more than its American counterparts but they are on top because more and more American's see it my way and buy from companies who build cars to last more than the term of their loan or warranty.
So apparently the "good" colleges leave out things like researching a purchase to find out that Ford and GM now outpace Toyota in quality with serveral models?
jdubh2 wrote: I hope Ford, GM, and Dodge all go out of business for building cars of poor quality, or get bought out by the foreign competition. People could just as easily bought a Chevy Cobalt or smaller Ford, but they bought a Honda. In college today most teach that buying an American car is a sign of stupidity, that a person did no research into quality, safety, or longevity before making a major purchase and as a result any one brand of Big 3 cars are repo'd more the next three foreign competitors combined--in a time when Toyota outsells GM as a leader.
I hope you lose your job too sir.
I am in college today, and the only people who still believe that Foreign Manufacturers make better cars than Domestic Manufacturers are those people who walk around with a starbucks in one hand, and a cell phone in the other. Basically, the Yuppie, turned up nose crowd.
You seem to fit this mold perfectly by implying that those who choose to drive a domestic car are somehow not as intellectually intelligent as you perceive yourself to be.
I meant the good colleges, the ones with dorms so their students don't have to live in RVs.
And I guess I shouldn't say I hope they go out of business. I should have phrased it, when they go out of business. GM closes more plants monthly, Ford can't sell any F-series. They both build******and have let the American people down and as a result the Japanese are on top. Toyota sells more worldwide, Honda Civic is #1 here. All of it built by Americans in non-union plants. The UAW will be a thing of the past when they run the Big 3 into the ground and what will be even worse is all the retirees will lose their money as well. It's just a matter of time. WorldCom had 85000 employees, Enron had quite a few, Airlines have went that way and manufacturers such as Plymouth and Oldsmobile are a thing of the past. The Big 3 better get it together or some of you may not have a choice but to buy a "Japanese " car. The Honda Civic is one of the most reliable cars, gets great gas mileage, and costs more than its American counterparts but they are on top because more and more American's see it my way and buy from companies who build cars to last more than the term of their loan or warranty.
So apparently the "good" colleges leave out things like researching a purchase to find out that Ford and GM now outpace Toyota in quality with serveral models?
I think its really funny how some people are...I am currently a junior in college right now. My roommate couldn't drive his honda accord home from his girlfriends apartment a few times, because the light that light up the speedo and all that randomly stopped working. He refused to drive it, because police are everyone and he didn't want to risk getting pull over, because he couldn't read the speedo at night.
His girlfriend drives a 1999 toyota celica...it left her stranded in virinia on the side of route 81. engine blew. that sounds like a great car company. when she goes around turns the car makes all kinds of noises. the car is a joke. not a very high quality car IMO and facts prove that. My parents never bought anything, but American vehicles. Mostly GM SUVs and Ford Trucks. Well 200,000 miles on our 1994 6.5 diesel suburban, which we used to tow a small trailer about 3500 pounds. It was always loaded and stepped on. It also snow plowed most of its life. Still running strong. And I can garuntee it gets better gas mileage than your taco.
If the big 3 go out of business, your precious Japanese company's will raise the price of their cars so high, it won't matter what gas cost.
My best friend's mom bought a newer like 2006 honda crv, the dang thing blew the tranny before 500 miles. Quality?? My friend did not like american cars, until he relized his uncle could get him a great deal on a 04 chevy cobalt. He loves it! its nice, quiet, quick, and American.
Japanese car company's decide to make their vehicles here, because its cheaper for them, not because its better for you. You want to see the heart of American cars, go to Detroit and ask them what they think of japanese cars.
My blazer has 90,000 miles and you know what, it is more reliable than my friends celica, that is the bottom line for me. You buy your taco, that is your business, don't hope that millions of people lose their jobs...
Oh, and is the faculty parking lot in every college full of hondas, and toyotas, and nissans? If what you say is right than there shouldn't even be one american car in the faculty parking lot. True or false?...false
Blazer man wrote: Oh, and is the faculty parking lot in every college full of hondas, and toyotas, and nissans? If what you say is right than there shouldn't even be one american car in the faculty parking lot. True or false?...false
Well, in the dept. where I work (at a university, btw) most of the cars owned by faculty, staff, or students are either American-branded trucks or Toyotas, Hondas, or Nissans. These 'import' vehicles are all certainly more reliable than the ones produced by the Big Three. I can honestly say that the two Mazda's, Hyundai, Honda, and two Toyotas have been a lot more reliable than the American cars I've owned.
David (who's current daily driver is a '97 Toyota Avalon with 148,000 miles on it; it drives like a 2 year old car)
1978 MCI MC-8 ...Conversion in progress
1989 Holiday Rambler Imperial 29
1998 Chevy Express 3500 Conversion Van
I would call myself a auto enthusiast and have owned or leased a lot of different new vehicles over the years including a 1991 Chevrolet Beretta GT (3.1 OHV V6 - 140 hp), 1993 Infiniti J30 (3.0 DOHC V6 - 210 hp), 1995 Pontiac/SLP Firehawk LT-1 (5.7 OHV V8 - 315 hp), 1999 Infiniti G20 (2.0 DOHC I4 - 140 hp), 2001 VW Turbo Beetle (2.0 DOHC Turbo I4 - 150 hp), 2002 Ford Explorer (4.0 SOHC V6 - 210 hp), 2004 Acura TSX (2.4 DOHC I4 - 200 hp), 2005 Pontiac GTO LS2 (6.0 OHV V8 - 400 hp), and now a 2007 Hummer H3 (3.7 DOHC I5 - 242 hp). I have also had extended driving experiences (say at least 2,000 miles) with a 1989 Cougar XR-7 (3.7 SC), 1991 Honda Accord (2.2), 2000 Nissan Sentra (1.8), 2003 BMW Z4 (3.0i with sport package), 2003 Ford Expedition (5.4), and a 2006 Civic EX (1.8). Of course I have also driven many, many others on test drives, which I like to do, as well other those belonging to family and friends. I only offer these lists in attempts to illustrate that I am no "fan boy" to any one manufacturer, market segment, or whatever grouping that may be defined and have experienced the offerings of many different makes and models over the years.
I would offer that each vehicle on these lists has had room for improvement in different areas and to me styling, engineering, and build quality are not independent. Did the imports have what I would describe as a definitive but then shrinking edge in engineering and build quality in the 1980's and 1990's? Yes but I would also offer that this was largely the result of the domestics not being REALLY pushed in those specific areas as up until the early 1980's. In those times they were the baseline for consumers' expectations on the vehicles given their then majority market shares and they had no financial incentive to do any different than the then market leader (each other). With competition, that changed almost overnight.
Today I would say that based on my own observations and experience major auto manufacturers have quality levels, especially when really you look at the vehicles they have put their full efforts and resources behind, that are almost indiscernible to one another as the free market and consumer choice has required. But even corporate resources are not limitless and the free market in the 1990's and up until say the mid 2000's demanded more and more SUV's and trucks from folks who probably had little to no true "need" for such vehicles (which is now the shifting group). Given the profits the manufacturers and their shareholders enjoy(ed) on these segments this is where manufacturers invested a lot of R&D looking for new and continued returns. In their product planning decisions why would they as publicly traded or at least for-profit companies invest $XXX million or even $X billion into a small car program at $X,XXX profit per vehicle when you could direct the same on $XX,XXX profit per vehicle SUV or truck program with equal or even less sales (unit) that worked out to more overall profit? It shouldn't take a college degree to figure out what YOU would do in management and even the import manufacturers saw the money (Titan, Armada, Tundra, Ridgeline, X5, X3...even Porsche for crying out loud).
As a result did the domestic manufacturers focus their large but still limited resources to these segments and probably under-resource their small car portfolio development up until very recently? You bet they did and it paid them well in the late 1990's and early 2000's and given the profits they were making and forecasting that shareholders/fund managers demand (representing us 401k account owners) they would have had a hard time getting the Board to approve anything else up until very recently. That is unless you could have handed them a Wall Street Journal from today showing them that 2007/2008 was the exact time the cap started to blow on oil prices as otherwise you would have had to foreseen the tipping point being when the subprime debacle resulted in the overly hot real estate market collapsing which resulted in concerns of slowing macroeconomic conditions and the fed cutting the discount rate which affects our currency's exchange rate coupled with of course other unknowns such as the geopolitical climate in oil producing nations and exact figures for crude demand and domestic refinery operating capacity and efficiency.
The only other thought I would add is that the import manufacturers and their profit minded management had the advantage of having long time profitable domestic markets themselves for small vehicles which was their base going into the US market as expansion all those years ago that provided justification for continuing large investment in those portfolios prior to their recent expansion into trucks and SUV's. Perhaps if the domestics would have had success in trying to crack those markets things would be a bit different now but then you get into why we, as a nation, look for free trade agreements where we can sell our products in their markets without restriction.
Of course understanding this or at least simply offering as a theory takes more that than the simple "domestics suck and imports rule" mentality that is so intelligently spewed by those that think an education IS a college degree rather than seeing it is a tool to use to increase your education. I am so glad we worry about teaching social studies and art instead of basic financial literacy and economics in public schools.
* This post was
edited 06/07/08 12:02pm by beaner364 *
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