BruceStarkey wrote: Heislerb: The problem with your suggestion of e-mailing re: Medical,: There is no distinction between the "Restricted A" and the full "Commercial A". They are both deemed to be commercial in nature. The restricted "A" is in response to what a previous poster (Dougjpr) stated was the abuse of the testing system whereby someone would show up after writing the "A" with the air (Z) portion with a farm dually pick-up without air brakes towing an empty 2 horse trailer and perform the "A" test by claiming "I tow horses for a living and the MTO ticketed me for not having the "A" so you're damn well going to give me the test using the equipment I was ticketed for using!" Then some of these guys would go on to driving full class 8 semi tractors with 53 foot dry vans without knowing a thing about them.
It was never about the RV'ers.
The failure in this new system is still the lack of address to RV specific requirements. The medical situation should be given reasonable accommodation of some adjustment considering the weights of our rigs NEVER approaching the 80,000lb nature of a "commercial" driven rig as well as the miles and hours of operation NEVER coming close to their norm's. We are out there doing this for our enjoyment with family aboard and not pushing ourselves to make a schedule or compete for the next load on the dock. We are also using equipment we bought and payed for ourselves and while that may be true also for some of the independants, their loads are owned by someone else and they are being compensated in a manner that allows them to pay for their equipment (or should be unless they're really stupid) and this generic "one size fits all" commercial aspect just doesn't cover our needs. Consider the griping you'd be subject to if we were to run the scales or border crossings as we are entitled to if, after all, we are deemed commercial by default.
This license only addresses the one part of the equation; that of the air brakes of a full sized rig complete with 45' or over trailer. They have now closed that loophole that previously allowed someone to test using "easier to drive" equipment, then later getting behind the wheel of the "Full Magilla" without any experience.
Bruce I understand what you are saying. The web site is not just about the Class A-R licence. I try to look at things simply. I wrote the MOT about the lack of clarity in the rules and I assume other people have also. They did clarify the rules and put just about everything in one location. They are government and as such work for us. If enough people ask for change we just may get change.
Bob: You're right of course. I have a problem with beuracrcy in general. It would seem reasonably simple to me to license people and their equipment for the tasks they intend to perform. If they can issue "dealer specific", farm related, or temporary short term plates in Ontario why can't they issue an RV specific plate and indeed a driver's license with an RV endorsement.
If you are then caught running the highways in a Commercial enterprise with an RV restricted license with a rig not properly registered you get fined accordingly. Simply requiring us all to jump through the same hoops as a guy that's going to make his living 24/7 driving something 80,000lbs and accumulating a 100,000 miles a year insted of 10,000 just doesn't make sense to me.
Today is just the tomorrow you worried about yesterday!
'04' International 4400 LoPro 310Hp/950FtLbs 10Spd Harley/RV Toter
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BruceStarkey wrote: It was never about the RV'ers.
The failure in this new system is still the lack of address to RV specific requirements. The medical situation should be given reasonable accommodation of some adjustment considering the weights of our rigs NEVER approaching the 80,000lb nature of a "commercial" driven rig as well as the miles and hours of operation NEVER coming close to their norm's. We are out there doing this for our enjoyment with family aboard and not pushing ourselves to make a schedule or compete for the next load on the dock. We are also using equipment we bought and payed for ourselves and while that may be true also for some of the independants, their loads are owned by someone else and they are being compensated in a manner that allows them to pay for their equipment (or should be unless they're really stupid) and this generic "one size fits all" commercial aspect just doesn't cover our needs. Consider the griping you'd be subject to if we were to run the scales or border crossings as we are entitled to if, after all, we are deemed commercial by default.
Think about this then, even though you may not weigh 80,000 lbs you are still considerable heavier than what the normal drivers license is designed for. What do you think would happen to a 25,000 unit or even a 15,000 unit if you had a health issue while driving. You have now become an unguided missile aim at a random target. At that weight, you will do considerable damage to whatever you hit. And that is why you still need your medical for this requirement. It is not the long hours of driving that requires the medical, but the physics behind the impact!!! GET OVER IT.
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BruceStarkey wrote: It was never about the RV'ers.
The failure in this new system is still the lack of address to RV specific requirements. The medical situation should be given reasonable accommodation of some adjustment considering the weights of our rigs NEVER approaching the 80,000lb nature of a "commercial" driven rig as well as the miles and hours of operation NEVER coming close to their norm's. We are out there doing this for our enjoyment with family aboard and not pushing ourselves to make a schedule or compete for the next load on the dock. We are also using equipment we bought and payed for ourselves and while that may be true also for some of the independants, their loads are owned by someone else and they are being compensated in a manner that allows them to pay for their equipment (or should be unless they're really stupid) and this generic "one size fits all" commercial aspect just doesn't cover our needs. Consider the griping you'd be subject to if we were to run the scales or border crossings as we are entitled to if, after all, we are deemed commercial by default.
Think about this then, even though you may not weigh 80,000 lbs you are still considerable heavier than what the normal drivers license is designed for. What do you think would happen to a 25,000 unit or even a 15,000 unit if you had a health issue while driving. You have now become an unguided missile aim at a random target. At that weight, you will do considerable damage to whatever you hit. And that is why you still need your medical for this requirement. It is not the long hours of driving that requires the medical, but the physics behind the impact!!! GET OVER IT.
A person with a "D" class driving a truck that weighs over 24,500 pounds does not require a medical according to the MOT rules.
A person with a "A" or "A"-R class driving a truck and trailer with a GCW of maybe less then 24,500 needs a medical, according to the MOT rules.
Medical Reporting (commercial licence holders - Class A, B, C, E and F):
Drivers under the age of 46 are now required to submit a medical report every five years instead of every three years.
Drivers aged 46 to 64 continue to be required to file medical reports every three years.
Drivers aged 65 and over continue to be required to file medical reports annually.
This requirement is to ensure that commercial drivers continue to meet the medical standards to operate a commercial vehicle
Note the MOT stated reason for a medical. I am not a commercial driver and do not believe recreational vehicles should be considered as a commercial vehicle. I do not mind paying the licence fee for the weight I have on the road. Vehicles and drivers of recreational vehicles should have rules that make sense for the type of vehicle they are driving.
Bob
* This post was
edited 06/07/08 07:47pm by heislerb *
Well; PavementPilot, to some extent I agree with your point being that of: I'm larger so therefore I need to satisfy a higher standard, but do you really think the potential for my heart attack to occur while underway in my RV for what amounts to my daily norm of 4 to 5 hrs a day for maximum of 4 days during any given trip I take, is as great as that of a commercial driver who could easily accumulate 60 hrs behind the wheel in the same time frame.
Your suggestion to "get over it" notwithstanding. I am going to fulfill every requirement legally demanded of me but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with them, or you, for that matter.
I discussed the way the weight of a fiver is determined with an MTO public relations officer earlier this year. The weight is the actual weight on the tires of the 5er, which does not include the weight of the trailer resting on the 5th wheel pin.
And the new information from MTO actually states that its the real weight on the road, not the GVWR that counts.
Also this information finally answers the question that has been argued to death here , that in Ontario a towed motor vehicle (toad) is not considered a trailer and there fore does not require brakes.
Amen.
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2007 Pontiac G6 Toad, Blue Ox Aventa LX
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FC wrote: I discussed the way the weight of a fiver is determined with an MTO public relations officer earlier this year. The weight is the actual weight on the tires of the 5er, which does not include the weight of the trailer resting on the 5th wheel pin.
And the new information from MTO actually states that its the real weight on the road, not the GVWR that counts.
Also this information finally answers the question that has been argued to death here , that in Ontario a towed motor vehicle (toad) is not considered a trailer and there fore does not require brakes.
Amen.
I sure wish the MTO would get it's story straight. When I asked the same question, I was told that the GVWR of the towed vehicle was the standard that determined if you required a Class A or not.
I've seen the information sheet on the MTO web site regarding the weight distribution of the tow vehicle and towed vehicle and appears to verify your comments. I guess that I'll have to load up the trailer and take it to a CAT Scale and get weighed. If the weight on the road from my trailer is less than 10,000 lbs then I shouldn't have to worry. Right???
I could rough guess if I'm legal. My 5vr GVWR is 11660 lbs. If 20% of that weight is on the kingpin then the 80% on the road should come to 9328 lbs. At that weight, I can get away with a Class G license. I suppose my Class B will cover it. But if I decide to tow a boat and trailer behind my 5vr, I'd very likely exceed the 10000 lb limit for towed vehicles and Class A licence would be a must.
* This post was
edited 06/09/08 04:44pm by Hamops *
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