Tundra2084 wrote: Spoke to an MTO Officer today as they were weighing Dump truck for over weight. Two questions I wanted answered. 1. Which weight is used for the 4600Kgs to have an 'A' licence 2. medical requirements on an 'A' R licence.
Answers: 1. The GVWR is used and what is stamped on the trailer (Unless the trailer is obviously misweighed then it would be weighed) and 2. Same as the regular 'A'.
It's no wonder that everyone who is taking part in this thread is confused. Nobody in the MTO seems to be able to come up with the same answer. The Regulations say that the weight impressed on the road surface and not the GVWR determine the license class. The MTO guys say it's the GVWR. It's typical bureaucratic run around. I certainly would like a definitive answer. Is it actual weight or GVWR?
I had myself convinced that a "G" class license was legal. Now I'm back in that Twilight Zone again.
Helen & George VE3INB and Max (Bichon Frise) 06 Silverado LT 2500HD D/A 2006 Crossroads Cruiser CF30SK
Prodigy Brake Controller
16K Reese Slider with a Bedsaver
skip298 wrote: I really did NOT want to hear that....rattzafratz!!!!!!.....and I guess I will be weighed everytime I get stopped.......In order to commence enforcement they would have to have an actual weight............cant see them using the "Placard Weight" as the enforcement point....would be like using the numbers on the speedo to say the car is capable of doing 200 mph so your getting a ticket for that...
Now stop that, right this instant, Skip. You're starting to make sense and the MTO can't have that. Think of all the people who work over there, beavering away, to make our lives more difficult. You'll put out them all out of work.
:}:}.....In actual fact Hamops it is a bit of a clarification.....using the placard (GVWR) weight.......... you know the CCC of your unit and the tongue/PIN wt.. so work from there......(I am assuming the PIN is deducted from the RV Axles weight) IF your figures work out to under 10138 lbs you are OK....In my case 14100 lbs placard weight.. Minus the 4000 Lbs CCC and Minus the(20%) 2100lbs pin weight(this is the MFG stated wt) which is applied to the roadway thru the TV axles .....puts my unit down to 8000 lbs...so loading with bare minimum would be the answer. I sure hope thats the weigh they will figure it....(BTW... Dad used to be VE3BJH..now silent key)
SKIP!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're confusing yourself and everyone else.......Forget about axle weights, tongue weights, pin weights.....even barbell weights. Its very simple if your GVWR is over 4600kgs you NEED an 'A' licence.
Let me put it this way regardless of what the actual weight of your trailer is (unless the manufactor has grossly over or under estimated the weight on the metal plate on your trailer), then the potential for you to weight THAT weight is always there. In which case if its over 4600kgs then you need the 'A' licence. Sorry ta be the bearer of bad news. BUT ya know me ........ stur the pot and stand back ta watch LOLOLOLOL
* This post was
edited 06/13/08 04:37pm by Tundra2084 *
Frank & Dawn
2005 Ford Super Duty F250 Diesel 6.0L Fx4 Short Box supercab
2007 Palomino Thoroughbred F-829RK
Tucker and Sadie our 4 legged kids
Tundra2084 wrote: SKIP!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're confusing yourself and everyone else.......Forget about axle weights, tongue weights, pin weights.....even barbell weights. Its very simple if your GVWR is over 4600kgs you NEED an 'A' licence.
Let me put it this way regardless of what the actual weight of your trailer is (unless the manufactor has grossly over or under estimated the weight on the metal plate on your trailer), then the potential for you to weight THAT weight is always there. In which case if its over 4600kgs then you need the 'A' licence. Sorry ta be the bearer of bad news. BUT ya know me ........ stur the pot and stand back ta watch LOLOLOLOL
You should check out the new web site. The following I have copied from the web site.
Class "A" if the weight of the towed vehicle or the combined weight of the towed vehicles exceeds 4,600 kgs (10,141 lbs).
towed vehicle means
any type of trailer, including a house trailer, and
a tow-along motor vehicle such as car, truck, van, sports utility vehicle (SUV), etc. that is being towed on a dolly or with a tow bar.
trailer weight means
the weight transmitted to the road by the trailer's axle(s) and is determined with the trailer attached to the towing vehicle.
What the above means if you are stopped and your trailer axels weigh 10,141 pounds or more, you better have an A or A-R license or know someone who can pick up your trailer. There is no other requirement or consideration.
You should check out the new web site. The following I have copied from the web site.
Class "A" if the weight of the towed vehicle or the combined weight of the towed vehicles exceeds 4,600 kgs (10,141 lbs).
towed vehicle means
any type of trailer, including a house trailer, and
a tow-along motor vehicle such as car, truck, van, sports utility vehicle (SUV), etc. that is being towed on a dolly or with a tow bar.
trailer weight means
the weight transmitted to the road by the trailer's axle(s) and is determined with the trailer attached to the towing vehicle.
What the above means if you are stopped and your trailer axels weigh 10,141 pounds or more, you better have an A or A-R license or know someone who can pick up your trailer. There is no other requirement or consideration.
Bob
That's exactly how I understood the Regulation. If I'm towing just our 5vr then I should be properly licensed, but if I attach a boat and trailer on the back of our 5vr, then I would very likely need a A-R license because the combined weight would exceed the limit. I think that I'll make a hard copy of the regulation and put it into the glove box, just in case.
I realise that everyone is trying hard to justify not to have to be properly licenced and you go for it. What you don't seem to understand is that you have to read the actual Highway Traffic Act and NOT something put together by someone in the MOT office. Weights on the road, axel weights etc just confuse. So for those that do properly licence themselves good for you..... those that risk the $360 ticket well..... Cause I'm sure that the first long weekend after the 16th of June the OPP will be looking for improperly licenced trailer haulers.
AND Hamops Ya can't double tow with an 'A' R licence....one of the restrictions.
I stand by what I have said and I am right ........My RV weighs RGWR 14100lbs......minus 4000Lbs CCC**.....Minus PIN** of 2100 Lbs =8000lbs...........******can alter totals...... when scaled alone my RV weighs 10900lbs.......when scaled attached to the TV my RV weighs 8340lbs.......I am 1700lbs under the need to acquire an "A" class licence......Later today I will have the proper website address to post.....I also stand by the comparison comment.......that IF the speedo says I can do 200 mph...doesnt mean I can be convicted for it.......If an officer insists on pursuing that route...request that it be weighed as required to show the actual weight of the RV......
Well I have been up for the past three nights and have thrown this question of licence's around with a number of colleagues at work,and have come up with a new opinion. My previous posts were a mixture of mistaken information from MTO Officers and me not taking my own advise and picking apart the Highway Traffic Act. I think I have now done this and.......
As per the following.....taken from the Ontario Highway Traffic Act
"registered gross weight" means the weight for which a permit has been issued under the Act, the fee for which is based on the weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles and load;
“gross weight” means the combined weight of vehicle and load;
Class A Class A — any combination of a motor vehicle and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms, but not a bus carrying passengers
Class D Class D — any motor vehicle exceeding 11,000 kilograms gross weight or registered gross weight, and any combination of a motor vehicle exceeding a total gross weight or registered gross weight of 11,000 kilograms and towed vehicles not exceeding a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms, but not a bus carrying passengers
Class G Class G — any motor vehicle not exceeding 11,000 kilograms gross weight or registered gross weight and any combination of a motor vehicle not exceeding a total gross weight or registered gross weight of 11,000 kilograms and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles do not exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms, but not,
(a) a motorcycle or motor assisted bicycle;
(b) a bus carrying passengers; or
(c) an ambulance in the course of providing ambulance service as defined in the Ambulance Act
In my opinion and I'm sure there will be other opinions........
1. A 'G' licence is fine unless the combined weight or combined GVWR of your truck and trailer is under 11,000kgs (IF over then a 'D' licence is required)
2. An'A' or 'A' R licence is required if the gross weight of the trailer is OVER 4600kgs (NOT the GVWR as I had earlier thought and was told)
SO I apologize for any stress or problems I might have caused to you, your marriage, between friends etc. and humbly await the ranting and admonishments
P.S. SKIP lower your blood pressure I think you may be rights as far as the 'A' goes but may be close to a 'D'
I have to acknowledge my RV dealer and salesman for this information..If they were unscrupulous I would be downsizing my RV to fit the laws.... and I would have spent(LOST) a few grand just to do it...He steered me right and true....Rob Lawson, If you read this I thank you........If the dealers name is a no no I apologize but its Camping in style in Whitby Ontario....They are good to their customers.
Tundra,,
you recall that they taught that the law is open too "interpretations" you interpret it one way the defense another way the prosecutor another way and the JP goes with the best argumentive skills... A class "D" is of absolutely no use to an RVer.....It allows for more GCW but as far as the 4600Kg towed vehicle limit is concerned its the same as a "G".......there are more changes coming in the fall I am told...the changes will allow far more leeway and open it up substantially for RVers.....and the "A" class "R" restriction licence is/was not meant for RVers... its a form of the old Chauffeurs licence...Tundra you probably dont remember that...:}.. its meant for those that need the extra for work related operations.......My source is the ORVDA website(Ontario Recreational Vehicle Dealers Association).......check it out for the latest correct and current RV info.........I have spoken to the people in charge and they assure me they are correct...they are the folks that are dealing with the Ministry to change and clarify the laws for RVers... Dont listen to the campfire experts.....go to the website and find out the correst information for yourself............If the website doesnt satisfy your need for info...call them...even the receptionist is keenly aware and knowledgeble....
* This post was
edited 06/16/08 06:50pm by skip298 *
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to make our lives more difficult. You'll put out them all out of work. 
