Many "vintage" Chinook RVs are monocoque fiberglass on the back (Some wood secondary structure). They made small class Cs back in the 70s on Chev and Dodge which could cram a family of 6 (providing some kids were small). My folks had one (1972 18+ on a Chev) and our family of 6 plus a dog went on vacation in an 18.5 ft RV. The van cabs were shorter then so it's not quite as small as one would think. It was our second car too. The back out lasted the cab (Chev rust).
Last I heard that RV is still running.....albeit with a bit of rust up front.
Dakzuki wrote: Many "vintage" Chinook RVs are monocoque fiberglass on the back (Some wood secondary structure). They made small class Cs back in the 70s on Chev and Dodge which could cram a family of 6 (providing some kids were small). My folks had one (1972 18+ on a Chev) and our family of 6 plus a dog went on vacation in an 18.5 ft RV. The van cabs were shorter then so it's not quite as small as one would think. It was our second car too. The back out lasted the cab (Chev rust).
Last I heard that RV is still running.....albeit with a bit of rust up front.
Thanks for the heads-up. I have been looking through ads for some time now, and noticed that some seem to at least have obvious fiberglass roofs, if not the whole thing. Others seem to be framed with metal and still assembled like a wood framed M/H. Still prone to leaking, but at least the frame doesn't rot as fast. Most, however, look conventional wood. I don't know how to tell up close, either. Any clues?
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Mopars forever... Not German, Japanese, Chinese...American Mopars!
The price of freedom is higher than the price of slavery, but it's still a bargain!
The only way to tell how she's framed inside is to get behind the cabinets, under the furniture, and behind the appliances. That is where you see the penetrations through the "hull" and get a peek inside the walls.
bsinmich wrote: Almost everything from that vintage will have wood framing.
Sorry, but you're wrong.
My '73 Concord - Dodge chassis - has metal framing - as do all coaches from the Champion Fleet (Titan, Champion, Concord, etc.).
If I remember correctly, the Travcos (all Dodge chassis as well - and fiberglass exterior) have metal framing as well.
Go to this thread for more info on older, Dodge-based motorhomes.
American Clipper motorhomes are both Dodge-based and fiberglass.
Oh, and I wouldn't change my decision to purchase mine for the world. It was usable right off the bat - everything worked. We have put some money into it, but that is to customize it for our use. We did have to do some tuneup stuff to the engine, but every engine needs tuneup stuff. Fortunately, these are easy to work on (not a computer in sight).
Now you've got my interest... These would all be class A's wouldn't they?
I live in the middle of nowhere. Anything I find to buy is likely several hours away. So, just going to "look" is a tank of gas, even in the Neon, and these days, that's $50. The major cities are 175, 280, and 325 miles away, and that seems to be where the majority of stuff for sale is.
Are there are others besides these that are assured to be fiberglass / metal frame / otherwise not wood ? Lots of craigslist, classifieds, etc, don't specify how its constructed, some don't know/don't care. It's a handy way to elimenate what I'm not interested in working on. And, no, I dno't care if it's 60's, 70's, or or newer, except that the newer chassis will have better brakes and handling...usually.
EFI instead of a carb, a torque manifold, efficient torque converter instead of stock, and some easy rolling tires, along with very careful attention paid to ignition curves and other performance details will make dramatic changes...
Leeann is correct. Most of the 60's to late 70's As and Cs had steel framing, NOT aluminum. Winnebago did not, their coaches and trailers were introduced '68-'69 as "entry-level" (read cheap wooden /conventional construction") ways to camp.
Avion and Silver Streak both made a Class C off a Dodge 1-ton.
Steel-framed.
Airstream used GM for their As; now Ford for their B+'s. Look at the similarities between the Airstream and GMC coaches, they are virtually identical. Interestingly, GMC bought their A bodies from Travco and Travco built their interiors, also.
American Clippers are Cs, 21 or 24-ft, all fiberglass construction. Wonderful rigs --I wanted one bad.
Again, steel frames. 1-pc fiberglass cap.
Holiday Rambler is a very well built coach (pre 78, later I do not know), but heavy.
They were put together with an eye toward "stout."
Steel-framed, but roof construction, I *think* was a 1-pc fiberglass cap.
You got some good advice about the older Bluebirds. I remember when their 1st coaches came out (1970), my father actually considered selling his beloved Avion and buying one. He didn't...
Look hard, there will be lots more for sale. Good ones, too.
What to watch out for is a rubber roof --especially in the Great North-Wet.
Seams fail, people use the wrong caulk and too much caulk, etc.
Fuel injection is about as easy a fuel delivery system as there is, BUT the swap is more time-and-money consuming than folks want to think.
Put it this way, if EFI was not time-prohibitive, my Travco would have it.
Leeann can vouch for how cheap I get parts... ;-)
"Ignition curves?" baby, it's spark and fuel, spark and fuel...
I don't care how anyone phrases it, the leaner and hotter it runs, the more efficient it will be.
65crewcab,
I'm not exactly sure where you are but I live near Ontario, Or. If you find something close to me you would like checked out let me know. I bought and old 74 dodge based class C last fall for cheap. It is the wood frame and had some water leak problems in the overhead but I was able to repair the damage fairly easily. While I was at it I decided to redue much of the inside either replacing or repairing painting etc. I will have less than 2 grand in it when I am done and it should last a long time. PM me if you would like to discuss anything further... take care,, Al
I don't think anyones dying statement ever contained the words "I wish I had spent more time in the office", so lets go somewhere!
ALnCORY wrote: 65crewcab,
I'm not exactly sure where you are but I live near Ontario, Or. If you find something close to me you would like checked out let me know. I bought and old 74 dodge based class C last fall for cheap. It is the wood frame and had some water leak problems in the overhead but I was able to repair the damage fairly easily. While I was at it I decided to redue much of the inside either replacing or repairing painting etc. I will have less than 2 grand in it when I am done and it should last a long time. PM me if you would like to discuss anything further... take care,, Al
I live near Pendleton. And I'll PM you if I see anything in that area...
Leeann is correct. Most of the 60's to late 70's As and Cs had steel framing, NOT aluminum. Winnebago did not, their coaches and trailers were introduced '68-'69 as "entry-level" (read cheap wooden /conventional construction") ways to camp.
Avion and Silver Streak both made a Class C off a Dodge 1-ton.
Steel-framed.
Airstream used GM for their As; now Ford for their B+'s. Look at the similarities between the Airstream and GMC coaches, they are virtually identical. Interestingly, GMC bought their A bodies from Travco and Travco built their interiors, also.
American Clippers are Cs, 21 or 24-ft, all fiberglass construction. Wonderful rigs --I wanted one bad.
Again, steel frames. 1-pc fiberglass cap.
Holiday Rambler is a very well built coach (pre 78, later I do not know), but heavy.
They were put together with an eye toward "stout."
Steel-framed, but roof construction, I *think* was a 1-pc fiberglass cap.
You got some good advice about the older Bluebirds. I remember when their 1st coaches came out (1970), my father actually considered selling his beloved Avion and buying one. He didn't...
Look hard, there will be lots more for sale. Good ones, too.
What to watch out for is a rubber roof --especially in the Great North-Wet.
Seams fail, people use the wrong caulk and too much caulk, etc.
Fuel injection is about as easy a fuel delivery system as there is, BUT the swap is more time-and-money consuming than folks want to think.
Put it this way, if EFI was not time-prohibitive, my Travco would have it.
Leeann can vouch for how cheap I get parts... ;-)
"Ignition curves?" baby, it's spark and fuel, spark and fuel...
I don't care how anyone phrases it, the leaner and hotter it runs, the more efficient it will be.
Ignition timing curves are extremely critical to both power and fuel economy. Almost every motorhome with a carb has HORRIBLE timing curves, unless it was built before 1973. Later ones aren't a lot better. Not until MPEFI became factory did timing curves and so on improve much. California emissions would destroy that, too.
As far as EFI goes... I put EFI on a 440 before. It's not really THAT time consuming. You specifically want: Closed loop feedback.
Also, you'll need to adapt to the intake, and the best way to do that and improve both economy and grunt is to have a tall'ish' adapter that goes on a dual plane manifold and makes a nice transition.
Best to run a BIG cold air pipe out to infront of the rig and put on a remote air cleaner that pulls in cold air. With EFI, it'll work best in all weather. That means a neat airbox on top of the throttle body.
Money, however... yes, it costs money. If you hire the job done, easily 2K or more. I'd do it JUST for the sake of how it runs. I am considered a carb whiz by the folks who know me, and even the best I can do with a carb looks sick compared to EFI.
My car went from 13 mpg to 18 mpg... 72 chrysler station wagon W/440. And instant starts, hot or cold. Exhaust had no odor, and we ran it on an emissions tester... it passed specs for 80's catalyst equipped engine... WITHOUT a cat. No vapor lock, no fuel boiling in the carb in the summer.
Old motorhomes have conventionally carburetted engines. Modern ones have electronic fuel injection which performs better pulling grades at high altitudes. If you can convert an old engine to EFI and upgrade the cooling system including clutch fan, and insulate the cabin from hot engine and manifold heat, and get the dash A/C to work effectively, the thing could be pleasurable to drive. Repair of roof and side leaks and getting all appliances including furnace and roof A/C as well as generator and 110-to-12 volt converter/house battery charger and house box electrical system working well
can be expensive and challenging. Getting the thing to look really spiffy inside and out requires even more skills or paying specialists. As someone else warned, you will not be able to sell a restored rig for anywhere near as much as you spend on it and it will be some time before you can use it with all systems working. Been there and I warn others about it.
Bordercollie wrote: Old motorhomes have conventionally carburetted engines. Modern ones have electronic fuel injection which performs better pulling grades at high altitudes. If you can convert an old engine to EFI and upgrade the cooling system including clutch fan, and insulate the cabin from hot engine and manifold heat, and get the dash A/C to work effectively, the thing could be pleasurable to drive. Repair of roof and side leaks and getting all appliances including furnace and roof A/C as well as generator and 110-to-12 volt converter/house battery charger and house box electrical system working well
can be expensive and challenging. Getting the thing to look really spiffy inside and out requires even more skills or paying specialists. As someone else warned, you will not be able to sell a restored rig for anywhere near as much as you spend on it and it will be some time before you can use it with all systems working. Been there and I warn others about it.
Fixing one to sell is pointless, I agree.
Then again, look at the depreciation on a new one. It's horrifying.
The depreciation alone for 10 years, is far more than you'd ever spend making an old one "nice" and then driving it for 10 years.
My friend has had 3 MH's, all old enough to buy beer (a 1977, a 1972, a 1974). The 72 was a FWD RevCon on Olds Toronado running gear--nice to drive, but just not practical for him (too little storage, odd layout). The 77 and 74 were Coachmen C's on Dodge B-300 Sportsman chassis (22 and 25' respectively, IIRC). The 77 had a 318-3...I can't recommend that unless you stay local. It's reliable (sold with 166,000 miles, engine never opened, even had the original water pump), but VERY underpowered lugging six tons. The factory crutched it with very deep gears (I think 4.56's), meaning highway driving was a bit loud (engine noise and the enormous cooling fan) and only managed 9-10MPG. It was good enough to take him on many long trips, and towed his VW pickup. He bought it cheap (I think $300) due to a mouse infestation, and after letting Prince, his Siamese cat, live in it for a few days (Prince didn't eat cat food for almost a week ) we wound up replacing the wiring, insulation, and some plumbing.
Redoing the inside, we had the "while it's apart..." problem. We're opening up a wall to fix wiring. Well, while it's apart, we might as well redo the insulation. Hmm, while that's out, might as well reseal the fibreglass from both sides. If we do that, might as well replace any questionable structural pieces. Well, if we're going THAT far, we might as well replace all the plumbing...it's 20+ years old and has a couple of crude-looking repairs. Well, while we do THAT, we should... Get the picture? Don't get me wrong--it wasn't that HARD (these things aren't rocket science), just time-consuming and somewhat messy. There was some water damage and wet insulation, so I'm glad we did it all.
His 74 is also a Dodge B-300, but very different: in addition to a more practical floorplan compared to the somewhat oddly-laid-out (rear entrance and bath, no non-folding bed except the cabover bunk) 77, it had something else: a stump-pulling 440. With 3.91 gears and a Gear Vendors overdrive, it matches the 77's mileage, with a much more-relaxed highway cruise and VASTLY better hill climbing ability. It needed some work (bad heater core, a couple wiring issues, a cracked window, a few water lines, a seriously-wasted steering box), but was basically solid & had no water leaks.
The 440 is a great MH engine...it manages 9-10MPG with a ThermoQuad carb (hands-down the best MH carb), a stock intake, a 3/4" carb spacer, and iron manifolds feeding 2.5" dual exhausts with Dynomax turbo mufflers & a pair of resonators.
Quote: If I remember correctly, the Travcos (all Dodge chassis as well - and fiberglass exterior) have metal framing as well
I think you do...heck, there was a Travco class A (called the "Mopar Motel") on the 2007 Hot Rod Power Tour.
John
1984 Ford B-700 school bus conversion, Thomas body
A bunch of other vehicles
3 nutty cats (Maya, Vierna, Briza)
One lazy dog (Marmaduke)
One wife (Liz)
"A wasted youth is better by far than a wise and productive old age"
-Jim Steinman
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) we wound up replacing the wiring, insulation, and some plumbing.
Get the picture? Don't get me wrong--it wasn't that HARD (these things aren't rocket science), just time-consuming and somewhat messy. There was some water damage and wet insulation, so I'm glad we did it all.
