Since he is using water in a tank in the car, the car must be pruducing the power needed to extract the hydrogen. He clearly states that NO external energy is needed.
Sorry, as there is zero energy available from water I simply do not believe it. Think of the process of creating hydrogen as similar to charging a battery. Energy is stored in the form of hydrogen gas that can then be burned, releasing the stored energy and returning the water that was used originally. In the battery scenario, the battery is now discharged and needs power to charge it up again.
Power to break out the hydrogen from the water comes from somewhere - if it's free (solar, wind etc) that's great, but to say no external power is required is a myth.
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Beautiful, this proves it CAN be done, but it has a 10KW solar power input that uses the excess power over actual usage to create hydrogen. Hydrogen from water doesn't just "happen".
That video clip actually didn't discuss how he powered his vehicles though or did I miss it?
That clip was only part of the report that was originally shown. Noone ever claimed that hydrogen from water just happens. These clips show that it is possible to be free from fossil fuels. We can all take a cynaical approach and say "This is impossible, it can't be done" or we can be optimistic and encourage these pioneers in their quests. I am willing to bet that there were people many years ago claiming that the internal combustion engine was impossible, but here we are.
I am seeing more and more reports of people acheiving success in this area and I am inclined to be less cynical.
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Since he is using water in a tank in the car, the car must be pruducing the power needed to extract the hydrogen. He clearly states that NO external energy is needed.
Sorry, as there is zero energy available from water I simply do not believe it. Think of the process of creating hydrogen as similar to charging a battery. Energy is stored in the form of hydrogen gas that can then be burned, releasing the stored energy and returning the water that was used originally. In the battery scenario, the battery is now discharged and needs power to charge it up again.
Power to break out the hydrogen from the water comes from somewhere - if it's free (solar, wind etc) that's great, but to say no external power is required is a myth.
Then you have to assume that he is lying and that many other people involved in this are lying. That is your right of course. Me, I prefer to be optomistic.
I would assume that hydrogen produced while the car is running could be stored in a tank and burned to start the vehicle just like gasoline is stored in the gas tank now.
Just because I don't know every detail of how something works doesn't mean it doesn't. I don't know every detail of how my television works but I am watching court tv right now.
* This post was
edited 06/16/08 01:23pm by In The Dawghouse *
In The Dawghouse wrote: Then you have to assume that he is lying and that many other people involved in this are lying. That is your right of course. Me, I prefer to be optomistic.
I would assume that hydrogen produced while the car is running could be stored in a tank and burned to start the vehicle just like gasoline is stored in the gas tank now.
Just because I don't know every detail of how something works doesn't mean it doesn't. I don't know every detail of how my television works but I am watching court tv right now.
Lying - no. Not telling the whole story - absolutely!
The energy to break out that hydrogen comes from somewhere and it ain't from the cars momentum, otherwise the car would be producing more energy than it uses. That ain't gonna happen.
As an engineer I know you don't get something from nothing and also know you don't get energy from water. Now, until someone produces a credible report from an independent laboratory that supports all this stuff I am done with this topic.
Professor95, are you around? He indicates he has a water/fuel injector in his profile. If anyone could actually get one to work, I think he could. Would love to hear more about it.
No energy in water?? Ever seen a Flash Flood? Ever seen a Water-Wheel Grind grain? Ever seen a Liquid Fueled (Hydrogen/Oxygen mix)Rocket launch? My 11 year old tells me "All Matter Has Energy". It's in her Science Book... There are two kinds of energy: Potential Energy and Kinetic Energy. Standing Water has Potential Energy, Flowing Water has Kinetic Energy. Point is, there is Energy in all Matter. Water is Matter so it doesn't matter whether you think there is Energy in Water or not.
My friends that built their own units are only using 1.6 volts DC after a Reducer, from the 12 volt already available voltage, to heat their Stainless Steel elements, to heat the water and KOH to produce the HHO Gas. Since Number One vehicle gained 10 MPG from that, I fail to see the Big Deal about how much energy it took to extract the HHO Gas when it is coming from already existing voltage produced by the alternator resulting in a 10 MPG Increase. It's not replacement that we are doing (too expensive for us at this point). It's Supplementation. For $272 I think 10 MPG Increase is worth it at today's gas prices.
Oh, I just heard this AM on my favorite Internet Radio Station out of Michigan that GM is working with the US Postal Service on Hydrogen Fleet Vehicles and will be testing them in California. Joining many States who are already doing this. These are Hydrogen powered, not just supplemented.
Gimme a break!!! - since when did kinetic energy and potential energy have ANY relevance to generation of hydrogen from water in a holding tank!
And the GM/USPS hydrogen test - Yup, running on pure hydrogen. A test fleet like USPS is good because they can have their local hydrogen refueling facility at a central depot.
Where do you think THAT hydrogen is coming from??
(Hint - it's not free!)
And neither is that power you are drawing from your alternator. It could be sucking down a couple of horsepower to produce that current you are using.
Once again - NOT free! Alternators absorb power in direct relation to the electric power being used - they don't just sit and spin.
It is a well known fact among engineers (though glossed over by the enviro's) that hydrogen is a "NET LOSS" fuel. That is it takes more energy to make it (with current technology) then you get from burning it. The ONLY way it comes close to making economic sense is if you are getting the electricity for the process from a nuclear plant.
The energy loss is so great that there was a recent well written article in Car & Driver magazine explaining how if we had somehow skipped gasoline as a fuel and went with hydrogen instead that the development of a gasoline fueled engine would be hailed as great step forward in energy conservation.
But hey who needs hydrogen, lets all just order some of those "magic" pills that you drop in your gas tank and get 100mpg.
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kaydeejay wrote: Gimme a break!!! - since when did kinetic energy and potential energy have ANY relevance to generation of hydrogen from water in a holding tank!
(Hint - it's not free!)
And neither is that power you are drawing from your alternator. It could be sucking down a couple of horsepower to produce that current you are using. Once again - NOT free! Alternators absorb power in direct relation to the electric power being used - they don't just sit and spin.
I thought you were done with this topic?
Lets see... Water in a tank has potential energy, you heat it with a catalyst (KOH) in the mix and you get Hydrogen Gas which burns and produces power thus fulfilling it's potential.
And once again I say, So what if it draws a little HP if you still end up increasing your MPG by 10 MPG? You keep ignoring the results of my friend's installed unit.
Air Travel, the Internet, Star Wars Anti-Missile Systems, vehicles faster and more powerful than a horse all used to be pipe dreams too. Somebody will get all the details and workarounds figured out sooner than later.
Steve_in_29 wrote: It is a well known fact among engineers (though glossed over by the enviro's) that hydrogen is a "NET LOSS" fuel. That is it takes more energy to make it (with current technology) then you get from burning it. The ONLY way it comes close to making economic sense is if you are getting the electricity for the process from a nuclear plant.
The energy loss is so great that there was a recent well written article in Car & Driver magazine explaining how if we had somehow skipped gasoline as a fuel and went with hydrogen instead that the development of a gasoline fueled engine would be hailed as great step forward in energy conservation.
But hey who needs hydrogen, lets all just order some of those "magic" pills that you drop in your gas tank and get 100mpg.
Do a search on youtube and you will see many people who say you are wrong. Of course, maybe this is just some elaborate hoax perpetrated by hundreds of people who don't even know each other for no apparent reason.
The videos that I have watched show hydrogen production using very low electrical energy.
Maybe I am wrong and this a huge elaborate hoax by many people in several different countries who are not trying to sell anything, but I prefer to believe what I see until it is proven otherwise.
If we were discussing hydrogen production on a large scale,like to power a city, then I would agree that maybe the power used to produce it would not be cost effective. But, that is not what we are talking about. We are discussing producing a very small amount of hydrogen to suplement the combustion of the gasoline. The power that is used to produce it is already provided by the car using the alternator and the batteries. Do I think you can just snap your fingers and POOF ther is hydrogen, No of course not. The energy used to produce this small amout of hydrogen is already there. Unless your car doesn't produce electricity. If that's the case, you need to get it to a mechanic.
* This post was
edited 06/17/08 07:50am by In The Dawghouse *
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There are two kinds of energy: Potential Energy and Kinetic Energy. Standing Water has Potential Energy, Flowing Water has Kinetic Energy. Point is, there is Energy in all Matter. Water is Matter so it doesn't matter whether you think there is Energy in Water or not. 
