"Only a fool without cash would opt for the 0% BS. Same as the "FREE GAS BS" promotion. "
and only a bigger fool would not calculate out what was best for him/her. depends on how much of a rebate you are giving up, doesn't it?
I calculated up what kind of a rebate you could give up and still make out OK, and that was about $1.00 a gallon ago.
and a bigger fool yet would be one that could get 0% financing and instead paid cash that could have been invested in one of those 10% passbook savings accounts that I read about in this thread.
You dont actually believe that nonsense??? It is precisely the overfinancing of toys that has helped fuel the crisis in the RV industry. I have no sympathy for those that are truly upside down. If one bought a unit with next to nothing down over 20 years my comment would be: What were you thinking?? After analyzing "MY" situation...I would say thinking very clearly..
If you paid cash, I would ask you the same question? What were YOU thinking?
Moisheh
I am not gramps on this board, but in reality I am to some kids... How did you reach the conclusion you did about the crisis in the RV industry...I thought the crisis was from the cost of fuel and the generally poor economy/inflation happening...
Are you sure you completely understand what truly upside down means...Are you upside down in your coach if you decide to sell? ie: would you have to sell it for less than you paid?
Gary And Cathy
'05 Dolphin 5342
Honda Element following us
GS, FMCA 365597 Rallys attended FMCA Albany, Or.'06 FMCA Redmond, Or.'07
moisheh,
I am not going to try and convince you. But there is something you need to understand, EVERYONE who buys and rv, no matter how you paid for it is upside down from the moment they buy it period. Uside down means it costs you more that you paid for it. That cost is depreciation, interest paid and/or interest lost and sum totals of all. Let me ask you this? Do you think that the dealers pay cash for the units they sell? Nope they do not...they pay interest only until you come along with your cash or your good credit rating and then you or the bank pays fot the coach they sold you. So to answer your question yea I do belive this stuff and I have made a lot of money off other money putting it to work. Ooops I am back on my soapbox again. JT do I need to shut up now?
Look its risky driving down the financial road. If keeping the cash and investing it makes you nervous than by all means pay cash. Its like driving an RV if the size and risk scares you than I would suggest not buying one too big. Its really comes down to what you are comfortable with in the long run.
* This post was
edited 06/24/08 08:05am by -Gramps- *
___________________________________________
08 Holiday Rambler Vacationer 38PLT Workhorse UFO GAS Pusher Chassis
06 Saturn Vue toad, SMI Breaking sys,Blue Ox tow bar. Myspace site and blog
Gramps and family Drive a UFO.com
sepisllib wrote: ...
As has been stated here - management and preservation of your assets balanced with the obligations is likely the most prudent method.
I am choosing to finance my next coach instead of paying for it outright. While I have the assets to do so - I feel that paying for the use of someone else's money while retaining and managing mine may be the best choice.
I subscribe to a similar theory Bill. Since I recently came into some extra $$...I immediately thought Id write a check and pay off my coach ( why not...right??)
The interest I would save comes to $7000 ( rounded off) and with the same amount of $$ it would take me to pay it off..totally...I can "work" for that amount of time ( 5 years till payoff) and MAKE $14,500 ( rounded off). SOME of my payment is still "interest" which "I" CAN DEDUCT..and if I were a smart man..Id still that amount ( payoff amount) in tax free Muni bonds and wouldnt have to pay income taxes on the interest paid me ( or of course I could blow it on the******tables in Vegas....lol)
2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty
Buy something for $50,000 and then after a period of time need or desire to sell it. Unit in question is worth $30,000 at that time.
You owe $40,000 on the unit.
However, when you bought the "something" you had $50,000 cash sitting in your savings account.
Question becomes ---- you sell the unit then for $30,000 ------- do you have enough assets to make up the difference in what you owe at the time of sale????
Guess I don't really feel someone is "upside down" on anything when one's liquid assets are sufficient that the unit can be sold and the total owed balance paid for upon sale.
Personal losses --- now that it a whole different issue.
On our present coach we owe "nothing" at all to anyone. Title is in our safe. However, what we paid for the coach and then what we paid to repair and improve the coach over the past 3 or 4 years is something different. Present average retail on our coach is low $40's and the total money put into her is close to double that.
Actually should we sell our coach for $40,000 we will show a loss of close to $40,000 and that is for 4 years. Cost of ownership - $10,000 a year plus insurance, fuel, oil and etc.
Is $10,000 a year an acceptable loss on enjoying yourself and family enjoyment for those 4 years? I think so.
Compare that to a new coach - buy for $250,000 and drive it home and enjoy the view of a brand new coach sitting in your driveway now worth substantially less than $200,000 - is this acceptable? Depends upon way too many things for one to judge by the casual. However one that does this has just lost more $$$ in a few hours of depreciation - than I have in 4 years......
It's all relevant!!
If you can afford to do it - it's basically your money (one way or another you will have to pay for it). Just make that decision and go enjoy your life.
God Bless
Bill
Bill W. Trammell
Wife - Judy
2001 Monaco Dynasty Chancellor
2008 Malibu 2LT toad
-Gramps- wrote: The Last Word on RV Financing
Your RV might actually cost you less in the end if you finance your purchase. By not tapping your financial assets to finance your RV, you can take advantage of attractive new investment opportunities, and the earnings from those investments can potentially exceed the cost of your RV financing. The bottom line is that if you are thinking of buying an RV, you should check financing options to maximize your purchase enjoyment.
These are all famous last words.......
Anytime the words financing, or 0% are used, run like h%ll! You are under a shark-attack! Buying something that loses 60%-70% inside of three years of what you paid for it, new or used is a loss, no matter how you try and reconcile it!
RVing is a costly venture, claiming you can do it for free is downright foolish! LOL!!
I see you posting in a lot of different forums and over and over again it is the same thing, how awful the RVing lifestyle is, how much money it costs, and on and on. Why are you here if you don't like RVing? Go get a life doing something else, because clearly this isn't a lifestyle for you.
Barb
Barb & Dave - full-timing Traveling catpanions Kit (age 18) and Shadow (age 11) Figment II (2002 Alpine 36 MDDS) Mischief (2004 Subaru Forester Toad) FMCA - F337834, SKP #90761 http://homepage.mac.com/barbaraok/ Our blog
sepisllib wrote: Upside down????
Lots of input on the definition.
What "I" consider as being upside down is this:
Buy something for $50,000 and then after a period of time need or desire to sell it. Unit in question is worth $30,000 at that time.
You owe $40,000 on the unit.
Bill
What I consider upside down Bill is this. I buy "the coach" for $50K...nothing down. I pay for it awhile and then have to sell it. I owe 40K on it..and its worth $30K....
But thats not MY method of working.
I buy the coach for $50K BUT I put about 25K DOWNPAYMENT on it. Pay for it awhile and then have to sell....I only owe..?.20K on it and its worth 30K...
* This post was
edited 06/24/08 10:23am by an administrator/moderator *
-Gramps- wrote: The Last Word on RV Financing
Your RV might actually cost you less in the end if you finance your purchase. By not tapping your financial assets to finance your RV, you can take advantage of attractive new investment opportunities, and the earnings from those investments can potentially exceed the cost of your RV financing. The bottom line is that if you are thinking of buying an RV, you should check financing options to maximize your purchase enjoyment.
These are all famous last words.......
Anytime the words financing, or 0% are used, run like h%ll! You are under a shark-attack! Buying something that loses 60%-70% inside of three years of what you paid for it, new or used is a loss, no matter how you try and reconcile it!
RVing is a costly venture, claiming you can do it for free is downright foolish! LOL!!
I see you posting in a lot of different forums and over and over again it is the same thing, how awful the RVing lifestyle is, how much money it costs, and on and on. Why are you here if you don't like RVing? Go get a life doing something else, because clearly this isn't a lifestyle for you.
You dont actually believe that nonsense??? It is precisely the overfinancing of toys that has helped fuel the crisis in the RV industry. I have no sympathy for those that are truly upside down. If one bought a unit with next to nothing down over 20 years my comment would be: What were you thinking??
Moisheh
I believe he does. A fool can make up any justification to stay in debt, upside-down, or in-the-hole versus a cash deal. It's interesting how many twists and turns they make to remain a slave to the lender. Risk sits down with them every morning at the breakfast table. Some like to pay interest to the loan company every month, and some don't.
Borrowing money or that 0% BS never makes sense, especially on highly leveraged, highly depreciating vehicles/toys. Being upside-down or in-the-hole are not the place to be. Justifying it with "it's a write-off, I deduct the interest, or I go to the casino with the extra cash I have," never seems to work out at the end of the day.
To wrap-up the 0% con, here's how is works; the manufacturer in effect raises the price of the vehicle by not giving you the rebate, and letting you pay the financing it costs them over 60-months. You not only paid thousands more for the new vehicle, you pay extra for their financing. If you don't believe it, try selling it right now and see how far upside-down you are at 0% interest. That's not 0% in any math book.
* This post was
edited 06/24/08 02:29pm by Skid Row Joe *
Buy something for $50,000 and then after a period of time need or desire to sell it. Unit in question is worth $30,000 at that time.
You owe $40,000 on the unit.
However, when you bought the "something" you had $50,000 cash sitting in your savings account.
Question becomes ---- you sell the unit then for $30,000 ------- do you have enough assets to make up the difference in what you owe at the time of sale????
Guess I don't really feel someone is "upside down" on anything when one's liquid assets are sufficient that the unit can be sold and the total owed balance paid for upon sale.
Personal losses --- now that it a whole different issue.
On our present coach we owe "nothing" at all to anyone. Title is in our safe. However, what we paid for the coach and then what we paid to repair and improve the coach over the past 3 or 4 years is something different. Present average retail on our coach is low $40's and the total money put into her is close to double that.
Actually should we sell our coach for $40,000 we will show a loss of close to $40,000 and that is for 4 years. Cost of ownership - $10,000 a year plus insurance, fuel, oil and etc.
Is $10,000 a year an acceptable loss on enjoying yourself and family enjoyment for those 4 years? I think so.
Compare that to a new coach - buy for $250,000 and drive it home and enjoy the view of a brand new coach sitting in your driveway now worth substantially less than $200,000 - is this acceptable? Depends upon way too many things for one to judge by the casual. However one that does this has just lost more $$$ in a few hours of depreciation - than I have in 4 years...
God Bless
Bill
Upside-down is when you owe more on your coach than it will garner in a sale. I have a hard time believing that your 15 year old coach will bring $42,000 anywhere today. I believe you would get a true trade-in nearer to $10,000 tops. You won't know the true number until you bring it into the deal after getting the best deal on your next coach.
There is no comparing your 15 year old paid for coach with a new $250,000+- coach driven off the lot at any price. Depreciation is generally 50% inside of two years. I bought a 9-month old pristine, loaded, used coach for -25% off what the new owner paid just 9-months before I bought it from him. I would never buy a new anything......too much of a hit putting you in-the-hole right off the bat. It is far better to buy used, regardless of how gently used it is. RVs are a dime-a-dozen, all RVs, none escape the depreciation game, even your 15 year old coach.
Bill, I would suggest you try testing the water by placing a few free ads around the Internet to see how fast someone will give you $42,000 for your coach, I believe you will get a wake-up call on it's true value to the next buyer.
Good Luck!
* This post was
edited 06/24/08 02:19pm by Skid Row Joe *
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How did you reach the conclusion you did about the crisis in the RV industry...I thought the crisis was from the cost of fuel and the generally poor economy/inflation happening...
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