We just about passed up on an opportunity to purchase a Chalet LTW TT weighing 1300 lbs dry (c/w electric brakes) because the North American Honda Civic (2007) manual specifies max towing weight as 1000 lbs at 95 lb tongue. Thanks to a post here on RV.Net we read about these cars in Europe being rated to tow over 3000 lbs with over 150 pounds tongue weight. Go to http://honda.co.uk and download the brochure for the vehicle of interest to you. Thanks RV.Net, you are a wealth of knowledge.
29JUN08 RESULTS AFTER 850 MILES in the MOUNTAINS:
This turned out to be a no brainier as was predicted by the knowledgeable who contributed to this thread. I am pulling 30 pounds per horsepower....need I say more, look at what you are doing! It handles like they were made for each other. I cruised the speed limit + 5% on mountain highways of British Columbia, excepting free ways in WA state where I did 60-65 MPH. All this with the A/C full blast at 85 DegF OAT and I am getting about 22 M/USG, down from 36 M/USG. As I say a perfect match that goes like h... engine cooling system never changed one iota.....
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How about letting us know how that goes. I would think that a Honda Civic would be very limited to what it could tow. I don't think it would work very well towing in the mountains most of the time. Guess it would work on level. I don't believe everything I read, not even on RV.net, especially if they said one thing about a vehicle and the manufacturer said something completely different about towing specs. If vehicle is still under warranty, I'd go with what my owners manual says about towing with the Civic.
A lot of European cars are not held to emission controls like they are in the US, therefore, more HP & TQ. Sometimes different engines.
Jim & Kathy
2007.5 Chevrolet K3500DRW/CC/LB/LMM/D/A LTZ, Prodigy,Reese 20K hitch.
2006 HR Presidential Suite 37RLQ (4 slides).
2007 Mitsubishi Outlander XLS 4X4
Boxers: Sheba, 13...Buddy..1 yr.
USAF 71-75 Nam Vet
Yes, the cars in Europe are rated much higher than over here. It is interesting that they have smallish gas engines or diesels yet still get the job done without issues.
This Ford Mondeo has a 5,000lb tow rating and it's engine options are both under 2.5 litres. It is highly praised as a TV in Europe.
In these parts we see a lot of 4 and 6cyl cars towing trailers. They seem to work well and are gaining in popularity.
The key to getting a pleasurable experience is getting the connection hardware and adjustments right. For our car and trailer we had the towing specialists at Can Am RV take care of it and it has been a great combination.
Our first tow vehicle was a 1988 Honda Civic sedan. Officially it had a 2000 tow rating back then, even though it only had about a 120HP 1.5 liter engine. We pulled a 1500 pound popup for about 3 years without even having trailer brakes or a transmission cooler. The car eventually went 200k miles before I lost track of it.
It's hard to believe that a modern Civic with it's superior body structure, more powerful engine and larger size would somehow be a less capable tow vehicle. I think I agree with your finding in this case, that the US tow rating is artificially deflated.
I could speculate that in this case it might be a result of profit margin. In Europe, they may sell the cars with a higher profit margin to cover the higher warranty costs resulting from customers hitching up trailers. Since most Europeans prefer cars even as tow vehicles, this is a marketing decision that requires the UK version of the Civic to carry a decent tow rating just to be competitive. Here in America Civics do not require tow ratings to sell so it's easier to lower the cost of the vehicle some and remove/lower the tow rating to save warranty claims.
Good luck, I think you will be pleasantly surprised how nice the Civic tows a Chalet.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
Quite simply, the standards on what is considered SAFE to tow has gone up over the years and cars are not built the same structurally as they were years ago.
Also, todays technology of squeezing every lasts MPG and lowering emissions limits the load that can be put on todays engine without causing engine damage. The "crumple zones" built into todays cars that save your life in an accident are also weak spots in the structure that limit safe towing capacity.
So the idea of taking a car that is rated to tow 1000 lbs (with a SINGLE 150 lb driver and nothing else), and towing a 1300 lb DRY wieght trailer PLUS all the stuff that will be put in the trailer (1500 to 1800 lbs or more overall?) is absolutely and totally absurd!
You would be a danger to yourself, your family, and other drivers near you with this dangerous combination.
Let's not forget the Darwin Awards, and the fact that the gene pool is kept clean through sheer stupidity.
In closing, and quite simply, I recommend VERY STRONGLY against that combination.
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Paul (Mouse)
2007 Flagstaff Shamrock 17 Hybrid (heavily modified for boondocking and winter camping).
2007 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab, 4.7L HO engine, Factory tow package, Equil-i-zer WD Hitch, Prodigy brake controller.
Yamaha EF2400 Generator.
I just luv reading posts from guys who are hung up on the tow rating thing no mater what.
A few years ago the Ford Crown Vic was tow rated for 5K to 6,000lbs. They worked well for many folks.
Then Ford made some improvements to the vehicle (that actually made it a better TV) and lowered the tow rating to 1,500lbs. So based on M-Farts mentality the guys who were towing within the limits with the older Crown Vics are now dumb Hillbillies because Ford over night decided to lower the Tow Rating. Gotta luv it.
The person who uses all the available resources gets the highest respect and regard when it comes to evaluating TV's and TV prowess, safety, and reliability.
Now, would you please post YOUR credentials that are the equivalent or higher than that of the engineers that design cars and RVs
LOL....
A number of years ago I bought a hitch from U haul and had their expert hitch man install it on my vehicle. The hitch was designed and approved by a qualified engineer. Right!
After a 20 min test ride with the trailer in tow the hitch almost fell off.
The hitch was a poor, weak design and the threaded frame inserts on the vehicle were not good enough to prevent 2 of the bolts from stripping the threads and coming out.
After a couple hours of metal fabrication and welding on my part I had a very secure and flex free HD receiver that worked perfectly without issues for many years. Engineers with credentials......"give me a break".
Interesting the expert opinions, but everyday I see on the highways towing combinations I stay well away from, usually the wanna be trucker type with bull balls and showing everyone how fast his "diesel" rig can go.
In Europe most caravans are safely towed by sedan cars, the roads are better, distances usually not so great and authorities keep vigilant eye out for obvious violations. Many cars have small diesel engines with good low end torque, and with silencers so the noise level is similar to gas engines.
I must say though, that travelling regularly on I95 and I75 here in Florida, the rv rigs are well set up, most of them smart and much better driven than many solo vehicles.
Mousefart wrote: Quite simply, the standards on what is considered SAFE to tow has gone up over the years and cars are not built the same structurally as they were years ago.
Also, todays technology of squeezing every lasts MPG and lowering emissions limits the load that can be put on todays engine without causing engine damage. The "crumple zones" built into todays cars that save your life in an accident are also weak spots in the structure that limit safe towing capacity.
So the idea of taking a car that is rated to tow 1000 lbs (with a SINGLE 150 lb driver and nothing else), and towing a 1300 lb DRY wieght trailer PLUS all the stuff that will be put in the trailer (1500 to 1800 lbs or more overall?) is absolutely and totally absurd!
And all this somehow addresses the fact the EXACT SAME vehicle has 3x the tow rating when sold on a different shore? Take off your blinders and stop calling names long enough to educate yourself before posting again.
THere are two factors that I know of off-hand that may make the European Civic tow more than the USA verson.
The first, and most important one is the suspension. Americans generally like a softer, looser feel to their cars, so the suspensions cannot support as much weight, and still handle safely. In Europe, due to secondary roads not being banked, and interstate highway having much higher speed limits, the suspension systems are set up much firmer and stiffer. Most European drivers recognize the feel of a good performing suspension system and prefer to buy cars with a tighter feel. Consumer reports in part contributes to this one on this side of the pond...they typically bash any vehicle with a tight suspension as having a "harsh" ride.
The other is emission controls. Europe has less stringent emission controls. While the car may pass both European and American standards when unloaded, when the car is run at maximum capability, the engine is worked harder, and thus pollutes more. The lighter tow rating is basically the specification where the car runs begins to run clean enough for American standards because it is not worked as hard.
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