Two things. First off, most European "caravans" tend to have a FAR lighter tongue weight than our campers do, and so are better suited for cars.
Second, most people traveling with caravans in Europe aren't traveling at more than 35-40 MPH (Watch nearly any TopGear episode and you'll see how big of a hatred there are for many caravan drivers in Europe).
Now, would you please post YOUR credentials that are the equivalent or higher than that of the engineers that design cars and RVs
LOL....
A number of years ago I bought a hitch from U haul and had their expert hitch man install it on my vehicle. The hitch was designed and approved by a qualified engineer. Right!
After a 20 min test ride with the trailer in tow the hitch almost fell off.
The hitch was a poor, weak design and the threaded frame inserts on the vehicle were not good enough to prevent 2 of the bolts from stripping the threads and coming out.
After a couple hours of metal fabrication and welding on my part I had a very secure and flex free HD receiver that worked perfectly without issues for many years. Engineers with credentials......"give me a break".
A good fried of mine has worked at an aluminum floundry for about 35 years. He went right from high school to work. A few years ago the company he works for was sick of losing millions of dollars per year in bad molds/products so they decided to ask my friend and some engineers what they thought may help. The engineers explained for about half an hour in front of the boss man and my friend. When it was finally time for my friend to explain his take on the problem in less than five minutes he had the boss man agreeing with everything that he was saying. After the engineers left the boss asked my friend why he paid them so much to do nothing. Now the company is no longer losing millions in bad products and my friend got a pretty nice promotion. He still has to work 60-70 hours a week though but does get 7 paid weeks per year.
You can only learn so much from a book. The things you can learn in 35 years you won't learn in any books.
Lets look at this from another angle. I just sold my 99 F53 Class A that weighed 18000 lbs with 275 HP, thats 65 lbs per HP. Now, my Honda Civic and TT are going to total about 5000 lbs with a 140 HP engine, that is about 36 lbs per HP.
cybervanner wrote: There are two factors that I know of off-hand that may make the European Civic tow more than the USA version.
The first, and most important one is the suspension.
The other is emission controls.
Could be some of the reasoning but this needs to be considered too...
On another RV forum I just read this post by someone who did an enquiry to Mazda about his Mazda 6 with regard to towing. Here the post and response from Mazda:
Quote: I have a Mazda 6, which I understand has a decent tow rating in Europe, but towing is not recommended in the good ole USA - Here is Mazda's response when I asked why they don't recommend towing and if the USA version is inferior to the European version
Hello,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
They are more than likely to be the same platform. But with the US versions it is probably more of an issue with liability rather than capability.
Sincerely,
Scott Vance.
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Harvard, for what it's worth, I too have looked at the differences between Honda's tow ratings in the US and UK. I have a Honda CR-V, but I've been towing my 1800 pound pop-up with no trouble at all. Yes, you know it's back there, but merging on the entrance ramps and going up hills is no problem. Likewise, braking is more than adequate. I know of several other CR-V owners who have "stretched" the US tow rating and went with the UK one, and they have found that the CR-V is quite capable of towing more than what Honda's lawyers would like you to believe. I even had my dad and ex father-in-law (both with considerable towing experience) go for a ride while towing, and they were impressed that it didn't at all seem like it wasn't up to the job. The UK version is rated for towing 1500 kg (about 3300 pounds) with 148 HP, and the US version is rated for 1500 pounds even with 166 HP.
Cabriolet86 wrote: Two things. First off, most European "caravans" tend to have a FAR lighter tongue weight than our campers do, and so are better suited for cars.
The European caravans have lighter tongue weights because WD hitches are not used in Europe.
Take a look at Australia, where the WD hitch is used often, even in class II towing sometimes. The manual transmission Civic has a tow rating of 2645 and the automatic is 1763. There is no tongue weight limit except a warning not to overload the vehicle's axle or payload capacities.
Cabriolet86 wrote: Second, most people traveling with caravans in Europe aren't traveling at more than 35-40 MPH (Watch nearly any TopGear episode and you'll see how big of a hatred there are for many caravan drivers in Europe).
I've been to Europe and seen this isn't true. Top Gear makes fun of caravans and exaggerates the caravan situation to make people laugh. Most of the vehicles I saw on European roads were towing at 55-70mph and staying in the slow lane of the motorways. Typical tow vehicles were Ford Focus, Volvo V70, Subarus, Ford Mondeo, BMW 3 series, Kia Sportage, Toyota Rav-4, Honda CRV... you get the idea.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
There is no way I would tow anything with my Civic. It's a great commuter car, but as a TV there is no way. Besides, I like my little putt-putt too much to make it pull over 1K behind it.
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLE EC LB, 4X4, 8.1/Allison, 4.10
Prodigy, Dual Cam
2008 Jayco Jay Flight 30BHDS
1 Beautiful Wife
2 Great Kids (6 year old Son and 4 year old Daughter)
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring the bell and run away - he hates that.
The old saw about there being no replacement for displacement isn't as true as it used to be. But the Civic doesn't come with high compression, diesel, turbo or superchargers. VTEC is nice for an on-ramp spurt, but makes the biggest difference above 4,000 rpms. Driving long stretches at such engine revs may not be all that hurtful to the engine, but it sure is unpleasant to listen to.
If you REALLY want to do a combo like this consider the new Toyota Corolla or Chevy HHR with optional 2.4 liter 4 bangers. The available power at 3,000 rpms is much better thanks to our old friend: displacement.
Some of you people need to get over yourselves (and your lack of knowledge). The engineers know more than you do, period, the end. Yes, they occasionally make mistakes, but far fewer than ANY of you would trying to do the same job. This is NOT name calling, it is the TRUTH.
If some people would stop flaming long enough to open their ears, perhaps they would learn something.
First of all, I'll assume that you're NOT an automotive engineer. For if you are, you'd know how LITTLE control we have over the specifiations of our products.
I'm a ME working under Daimler. Let me tell you, a MAJORITY of the design specifications are not finalized by the engineering department. We can go through rigorous testing to prove the safe limit of a component, and marketing or the lawyers can slap on their veto stamp due to customer demand, perception, and other stupid reasons.
While I have never worked on design for towing, I can almost gurantee that most sedans and minivans are under-rated for marketing reasons. Simple law of physics tell you that the power-weight ratio, handling dynamics, and stopping power of a 3300 lbs, 270hp Altima + 5000 lbs trailer is superior to a 300hp F150 + 11000 lbs trailer.
Tow rig to trailer weight ratio is also largely irrelavent with proper design. Proof: commerical rigs tow trailers weighting many times heavier than the rig itself.
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