I believe American and Japanese ingenuity could easily get great gas mileage but we have not wanted it. We like bigger better more powerful. One of the main reasons Audi VW get great mileage is because in Europe they HAVE to. With fuel prices and the regulations they have it is a must. Do you realize in England they charge a yearly tax on the size of you engine? Their tax on fuel is almost 40percent of the fuel cost. So it has been a must to be more efficient. With the same regulation don't you think we would change our habits also...Well if anybody has not notice it is happening already. How do you get greenhouse regulations passed.....cause a crisis....oil prices....
jmtandem wrote: I think Dodge is dropping the manual transmission in their heavy duty Rams and the mega cab in the next couple years.
Dodge is dropping the manual with the Hemi, but it will still be available with the Cummins. The six speed manual with the Cummins is just too popular like other posters have said.
The Mega cab will be dropped from the 1/2 tons starting with the 2009 model year. They will instead offer a regular sized four door crew cab comparable to the competition. The Mega Cab will still be available in the heavy duties likely until model year 2010 when they are redesigned as well.
2005 Surveyor SV-291 Tows smooth as silk!
1995 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie SLT 4x4 5.9L V8 low miles, It ain't pretty, but it's paid for!
This is the mindset that kills the diesel market in the US. A diesel does not have to mean heavy hauler. A small diesel in a 1/2 ton ideally would offer V8 type power for truck applications like hauling and towing while giving superior mileage unloaded. My FIL's 5.9L Cummins in his 2500 4x4 got better mpg than my current gasser, 18 city, 21 highway. I an many other gassers get his around town mileage as out highway mileage. The small diesels in the VW Jetta wagon get 50mph highway! If a truck hit 25 mpg EPA highway it would be fantastic and likely sell well despite diesel costs and it would still be great. The torque would also likely give better towing mpg numbers than an equivlent gasser.
Your FIL has an older 5.9 Diesel. These could actually break 20 MPG. Show me a diesel truck today (with all the emissions junk on them, and even more slated to be required by the federal government in the next few years) that gets more than 1-2 more MPG than the equivalent gas engine.
Like I said in my original post, if it was 1999, a diesel in a half ton would make sense, but those golden days are over. For anything but the heaviest loads, it just does not make sense.
The motors being slated are in the 4.0-5.0L range and likely will not be coupled to HD drivetrains. Those would still yeild good mpg. You are too fixated on current 6.0L+ displacement diesel numbers in HD applications and are missing the obvious. The 1/2 ton diesel is a different animal. It won't be equipped to tow like an HD nor will it be in the 8,000lb+ GWVR range. As I said earlier, there are cars getting 50mpg. Getting 25mpg out of a small displacement diesel in a truck is not out of the question.
moparmaga2 wrote: I am waiting for the announcement that Ford will drop their half ton diesel engine.
ANYONE with a 5th grade education can see that a diesel engine in a half ton truck, whose buyers are 95% light duty users, do not want an expensive, smelly diesel to transport themselves to the grocery store. Maybe in 1999, this would have been different, but Diesel is $5.00 per gallon now, not .70 cents.
If Ford goes through with putting a diesel into a half ton anyway and the present market for fuel holds, then I cannot feel sorry for them losing millions or billions every quarter, even though I love my Ford.
Any average Joe can see that has FAIL written all over it.
They're stuck with it.
Ford (and the other MFRs planning diesel 1/2 tons) needs the MPG boost to help their CAFE numbers.
..That would be because Europe doesn't have near as strict emission restrictions for diesels, like we have here. If they did, you would not see so many diesels over there.
Also, diesel fuel has traditionally been less expensive than gas in Europe, because it's taxes a lot less. Combined with the increased efficiency, and it's little wonder that diesel sales surpass gasoline.
Plus, European refineries output more diesel per barrel of oil than we do in the US.
The previous two posters are basically saying what I am saying. Our 5.3 Chevrolet Crew Cab Truck can get 21 MPG on the highway. A light duty diesel MAY get 25.
That is about 15% better mileage. However, gas here is 3.88 and Diesel is 4.70. So the fuel is nearer 20% more expensive.
So my math has you still losing 5% more money than a gas truck on fuel alone, even though a diesel would get better milage.
I still do not understand what I am missing? Why would someone want to pay more for Maintenance, Initial Cost, and Fuel, just to transport themselves to the grocery store.
How many people really tow heavy enough to need a diesel in a half ton? And if they did, wouldn't they step up to a 3/4 ton+?
If Diesel was $3.00 and gas was $4.00 dollars, then I could understand the argument, and I would be first in line for a diesel.
But, Face it, Diesel has no future in America with all the emissions restrictions and the higher fuel price
moparmaga2 wrote: The previous two posters are basically saying what I am saying. Our 5.3 Chevrolet Crew Cab Truck can get 21 MPG on the highway. A light duty diesel MAY get 25.
That is about 15% better mileage. However, gas here is 3.88 and Diesel is 4.70. So the fuel is nearer 20% more expensive.
So my math has you still losing 5% more money than a gas truck on fuel alone, even though a diesel would get better milage.
I still do not understand what I am missing? Why would someone want to pay more for Maintenance, Initial Cost, and Fuel, just to transport themselves to the grocery store.
How many people really tow heavy enough to need a diesel in a half ton? And if they did, wouldn't they step up to a 3/4 ton+?
If Diesel was $3.00 and gas was $4.00 dollars, then I could understand the argument, and I would be first in line for a diesel.
But, Face it, Diesel has no future in America with all the emissions restrictions and the higher fuel price
That 4.4L or so diesel should run rings around your 5.3L towing and do it more efficiently to boot. It should compare more to the less efficient larger displacement small blocks than the 5.3 in performance. That is the advantage of diesel. You will get higher towing mpg than a gasser as well. FWIW regular unleaded here in CT is $4.24 as of today and diesel is $4.79. You can't base savings based on your personal pricing, there is a whole country out there. I would be thrilled to be paying $3.88 per gallon here in New England. Once again, there is more to diesel engines than heavy towing and hauling. Audi runs them at LeMans and gets beter mileage than gas racers. We also cannot speculate on prices or maintenance until one of there engines hits the market. A small 6 cylinder should not use much more oil than a gas V8 I would imagine and if designed properly will outlast the gas V8 if diesel engines reputation holds true.
..That would be because Europe doesn't have near as strict emission restrictions for diesels, like we have here. If they did, you would not see so many diesels over there.
Also, diesel fuel has traditionally been less expensive than gas in Europe, because it's taxes a lot less. Combined with the increased efficiency, and it's little wonder that diesel sales surpass gasoline.
Plus, European refineries output more diesel per barrel of oil than we do in the US.
Show me a gasoline powered car in the US that compares to a VW Jetta wagon and gets 50mpg. That is why Euro diesels out sell their gas counter parts. To get 50mpg here on gas you are either in a golfcart sized compact or hybrid and neither has much room for 4 adults
moparmaga2 wrote: The previous two posters are basically saying what I am saying. Our 5.3 Chevrolet Crew Cab Truck can get 21 MPG on the highway. A light duty diesel MAY get 25.
That is about 15% better mileage. However, gas here is 3.88 and Diesel is 4.70. So the fuel is nearer 20% more expensive.
So my math has you still losing 5% more money than a gas truck on fuel alone, even though a diesel would get better milage.
Your math and the math used to perform the EPA fuel economy estimates are two entirely different things.
Diesels typically net 25% - 40% better fuel economy on the EPA test cycle.
Some of you guys might want to read up on upcoming CAFE standards. It makes the argument for diesel 1/2 tons very, very clear.
It will be very difficult to achieve relatively high tow ratings/load capacities AND meet fleet CAFE requirements with 1/2 ton conventional gasoline trucks.
Despite conventional wisdom, domestic auto MFRs aren't completely ignorant.
There are lots of regs and loopholes to jump through.
Ask Cerberus...automaking is not an easy industry to understand, let alone excel at.
My 2.0liter '84 Ford Escort diesel wagon got, 61mpg back and forth to work mostly interstate highway driving. 54mpg over the Pa turnpike with 2 adults, 3 teenagers and luggage for 5 for a weekend. 32mpg city. My 2.3liter turbo diesel '86 Ford Ranger got 32-34mpg highway, 24 mpg city, 22-24mpg highway towing. It pulled better then my 3.0 liter V6 to boot. My friends current 2.5liter turbo diesel Jeep Liberty has trouble getting 30mpg. What gives?
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