-Gramps- wrote: Do you think tax agents could be reading these forums looking for hints as to who might be using a Montana LLC in a way they don't approve of?
I think they have a lot better things to than spending excessive money to bring in very little monies!
This issue does not involve "very little monies." The issue of evading sales taxes and registration fees by registering or taking delivery of vehicles out of state is huge money. In California the Highway Patrol aggresively investigates these types of violations.
"Very Little Monies"?? Not with Illinois sales tax and licensing fees. The motor home in question was a DSDP - Dutch Star Diesel Pusher. If, for example, the mh sold for $250,000 in the state of IL, with a 6.25% sales tax.....that's $15,625.00 sales tax for 1 motorhome.....and that does not even include annual license fees.
That sure adds up pretty fast. Especially to a state that is struggling with their budget.
Mrs. Locknload, Locknload & Chewy
Dreaming of the day we become fulltimers.
Living the daily grind until then!
It is not the MT plates or the LLC that is the problem; it is out of state plates on a vehicle that has been in state beyond the time allowed. If I had been at the Rally and if I had other than IL plates on my rig and I were asked about my residence I would show my Driver's License because it is not IL. If I had a IL Driver's License I could have problems and would need to prove that the MH had not been in IL beyond the time allowed before registering in IL.
With the variety of tax policies among the states the higher taxing states always have problems with their citizens attempting to avoid taxes by buying in other states.
Basically if you live and work in a state you are probably a resident, if you want to store and use your RV in state there are no easy ways to to avoid paying tax and registration fees. CA does have a method to avoid sales tax but it is complicated; one element is documented out of state use for 90 days, thats a long vacation for working folks.
msmith1199 wrote: You're Arizona case is mixing apples and oranges. The facts of that case are completely different than what the OP described in this thread. You have far more protections in your own home than you do anyplace else. Any entry into your home by law enforcement must be done with a search warrant, with valid consent, or under one of the many exceptions to these rules. You can never have valid consent when there is coersion involved or any otype of threat of arrest.
Personal/private property is personal/private property. So, the principle is the same to me. Such an intrusion, interview, whatever, is not legal without probable cause, a warrant, or as you pointed out, consent. Yes, I have given testimony RE: a witnessed crime and RE: witnessed traffic accidents. But I will not freely participate in violating someone's civil rights, including my own.
As to the OP's original point, we personally would not use a Montana vehicle registration of any type, unless our residence was in Montana. Hey, NM has reasonable RV registration rates plus plenty of nice real estate to purchase . . . I'd even sell my house to help out.
* This post was
edited 06/26/08 10:51am by Oremus *
msmith1199 wrote: I've been a law enforcement officer in California for 25 years and I have seen it and it does happen. Military cars with out of state plates also come with military stickers in the windshield. Those are easy to spot.
Are military base stickers still required in CA? They're no longer required at our local bases.
SCHARLEY wrote: It’s not the fact that a MH is registered to an out of state LLC that makes it illegal. It’s the fact that if a MH is registered to a LLC based in one state and the MH is based in another that is illegal. If you are set up with MT as your residence there isn’t an issue. As a matter of fact, I can’t see any tax benefit of setting an LLC up if your personal residency is in MT.
Secondly, the legitimacy of many of these LLC’s could be brought into question. If it’s shown that a LLC was formed for the purpose of tax evasion without any intent of operating it as a legitimate, profitable business they would clearly be illegal.
In any case, it wouldn’t be MT questioning it.
Just how many of you folks with these LLC’s are actually filling Federal income tax returns (1065 forms) for them as required by fed law? Now that’s where I would be worried!!! Because not filling a Fed return as required by the IRS is illegal in all 50 states!!!!
If you are and all it indicates is tag and reg. payments, insurance payments etc. directly related to the MH and no other activiity like income, that would be pretty good evidance of your intent. If your not filling a 1065 and K1's, well Uncle Sam wants to talk with you! And be asured, he will get around to you sooner or later.
First a MT LLC is not required to file any tax return. Second, legal or illegal in any state is determined by the state law that says how long your rv can remain in state before required to get yout states tags. Ar law says any vehicle that remains in Ar for more than 6 months must have an AR tag. I am legal because my mh does not stay instate for 6 months. I have fuel and CG tickets to prove it.
Tenn Stud wrote: Interesting reading but few facts. I have never seen any agent of law enforcement except a constable that did not show his credentials, Identify him self and explain why he wanted to question you. They know about attaining information that cannot be used in court of law by the way they obtained such. There has to be probable cause. An officer both state and/or fed cannot seek you out in public without probable cause or you have to give he/and or her permission to enter, search and/or interrogate you. Most all fed and state LEO are gentlemen and show the same respect that you show them. You will occasionally find a new officer on the force that is on an ego trip.
You can be investigated all your life and there in nothing you can do about, It all depends how it is conducted.
Related to Tags, I know a man that has MT tags on his MH towing a toad with WA tags an had a WY drivers license. A trooper stopped him in AZ, Told him to go on that he had seen worse.
I doubt that MT sent agents to IL to look for LLC tagged vehicles. I also doubt that IL dept of revenue would send agents to look for license tags at a rally "Just my opinion"
Again this simply isn't true. As a law enforcement officer I can seek out and talk to anybody I want. Only when I start using some type of coersion tactics or otherwise go beyond a consensual encounter do we start running into issues with probable cause. There is also no legal requirement to identify myself, however, you would only use that tactic if there was a need to be undercover. See the story in my of my previous posts about the guy at the campground with the Montana plates. If I choose to do so I could have started questioning him in more detail and got all the info I needed to put a criminal case together. Since the contact was consensual, any information I gathered was completly legal.
And just to note, I've been a cop for over 25 years and I'm a parttime professor of criminal justice for three different colleges.
All it takes is one question (am I under arrest) Now it is your turn to decide the answer. If yes and you can not prove your case, You have set your self up for civil action. You do not have Sovereign Immunity. I subscribe to Lexis Law and posted case history where a NY judge handed down a judgement for $22500. each against two officers who were wrong it their pursuit. I too have a sheepskin on my wall
Tenn Studd, a NY judge ain't gonna help you in Montana or Tennessee. Not only do I have the sheepskin, I have over 31 years of putting it in practice.
You know and I know, if they want you, they'll get you. Remember Al Capone? Looking back on all the murders, etc., he was involved in but they only got him for tax evasion. There are so many laws on the books, state and federal, an officer or agent can find one.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 2)
David
There are three kinds of people in this world: those who can count and those who can't.
SCHARLEY wrote: It’s not the fact that a MH is registered to an out of state LLC that makes it illegal. It’s the fact that if a MH is registered to a LLC based in one state and the MH is based in another that is illegal. If you are set up with MT as your residence there isn’t an issue. As a matter of fact, I can’t see any tax benefit of setting an LLC up if your personal residency is in MT.
Secondly, the legitimacy of many of these LLC’s could be brought into question. If it’s shown that a LLC was formed for the purpose of tax evasion without any intent of operating it as a legitimate, profitable business they would clearly be illegal.
In any case, it wouldn’t be MT questioning it.
Just how many of you folks with these LLC’s are actually filling Federal income tax returns (1065 forms) for them as required by fed law? Now that’s where I would be worried!!! Because not filling a Fed return as required by the IRS is illegal in all 50 states!!!!
If you are and all it indicates is tag and reg. payments, insurance payments etc. directly related to the MH and no other activiity like income, that would be pretty good evidance of your intent. If your not filling a 1065 and K1's, well Uncle Sam wants to talk with you! And be asured, he will get around to you sooner or later.
First a MT LLC is not required to file any tax return. Second, legal or illegal in any state is determined by the state law that says how long your rv can remain in state before required to get yout states tags. Ar law says any vehicle that remains in Ar for more than 6 months must have an AR tag. I am legal because my mh does not stay instate for 6 months. I have fuel and CG tickets to prove it.
I am not a CPA but I am involved in or own numerous LLC's. A Montana LLC or an LLC in any other state does require a tax return if you have a Federal ID number. If the LLC does no business, a schedule C attached to your return will suffice. You could have a Montana or any other state LLC and not apply for a Federal ID number and most likely never be questioned as long as the LLC conducts no business. If you finance the motor home though, how would you deduct the interest on the LLC obligation if you never applied for a Federal ID number? The IRS would then have all the necessary information, it seems to me, to identify an entity established for a single purpose.
I can assure you there are not a lot of large companies running around the country establishing LLC's in non-sales tax states to simply avoid paying on equipment they purchase and use elsewhere. The LLC business in Montana is a "cottage industry" dreamed up by an enterprising attorney. I truly hope those dodging the tax and who file returns in another state of residence, invested their savings wisely against potential future actions.
Mandolin Guy wrote: Tenn Studd, a NY judge ain't gonna help you in Montana or Tennessee. Not only do I have the sheepskin, I have over 31 years of putting it in practice.
You know and I know, if they want you, they'll get you. Remember Al Capone? Looking back on all the murders, etc., he was involved in but they only got him for tax evasion. There are so many laws on the books, state and federal, an officer or agent can find one.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 2)
You missed my point it was not about a NY and/or a MT Judge. MY point being is how the officer collects the info and how he put's it together. Look at the OJ' case as an example. I think the OP was discussing a revenue agent, Which I doubt he being such
These MT LLC's aren't worth the time and effort the way their are handled. It can easily be construed as a tax evasion. I have discussed them at length with Jarred Haggan in Missoula
I am 76 yrs! Mine was issued in 1959. I changed professions early in game. Changed to building and selling Plastic and Extrusion Manufacturing plants. The reason I have access to Lexis is through my Niece and two Nephews that are lawyers. I still enjoy dabbling around in law once in a while. It gives me something to do
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