I have yet to see any equivalent sound engineering, thermodynamic, electrical or chemical principles that say you can get more energy out of hydrogen that what you put into the water to generate it. If this WAS possible, then the perpetual motion machine has finally been invented.
I agree. That was my train of thought when I suggested earlier that if this idea worked we should be able to get rid of the gasoline and just run the vehicle on water. While at it we could change all of our coal and oil fired power plants to water too.
I have read the articles I found on Google and in my opinion they were trying to use smoke and mirrors to sell an expensive contraption that probably does not work. They pretended to explain how it worked but in the end said nothing. Also, I all of the reports I have heard were either second hand or were from someone trying to sell the system.
Just for the sake of an argument though lets assume that somehow these systems work as claimed and do improve fuel economy by improving the efficiency of the engine. Don't you think that GM and Ford would be interested and would be promoting it?
Remember that GM and Ford are losing money by the giant SUV load right now because they cannot move those giant SUV's anymore. In fact, they are losing so much money that GM stock is worth less now than it was over 50 years ago and I am seeing articles in the financial sections saying that GM is doomed. The reason they may be doomed is that they not only have SUVs on the lot that need to be moved but they have millions out on lease that are becoming their property as the leases expire and they are having to move these vehicles for thousands less than what was expected at the start of the lease, giving them current huge losses on vehicles sold years ago.
Now it seems to me that the best way to move these millions of gas guzzling vehicles and save their respective hind ends would be to dramatically improve the fuel economy of these vehicles. So now we have someone with a lot of knowledge, motivation and vehicles that would really benefit from a simple add on kit like what we see advertised. I believe that if this idea really works we will see it offered very soon on new and off lease vehicles. If we do not see it from the factories, I will take that as evidence that the idea really does not work.
retired1 wrote: Sure is an awful lot of not what I asked about opinions. Thanks anyway.
By the way there is soon to be a care in India that will run on compresed AIR.
Mmm but how much energy does it take to compress the air and how efficient is the air motor that drives the car?
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC
Quote: Sure is an awful lot of not what I asked about opinions. Thanks anyway.
By the way there is soon to be a care in India that will run on compresed AIR.
I have a lot of air tools in my shop. I have a BIG air compressor with a BIG tank in my shop. When I'm using my little drill or DA sander, my air compressor is always running.
This little drill puts out very little torque and horse power for as much air as it uses.
I wonder what kind of pressure and how big of a tank I need to drive a car lets say 10 miles?
I see lots of companies out there wanting investors. I am of the belief that if someone comes up with a product that can save even 10% across the board on fuel ecomony people will be beating their door down 24 hours a day. They will not be able to spend their money fast enough and will need no investors.
When I was a little kid I had an answer for the energy mess we are in. I was about 9 or so and I told my dad my idea. My idea went like this. I would get a generator and an eletric motor. I would connect my gen-set to my motor with a chain and sprockets. I would plug in my motor and when making current I would quickly plug my motor into my gen-set!!!!!!!!
WOO HOO!!!!!!!! I can buy a Honda 50!!!! Or even better, a Honda trail 70!!!! I will have so much money I can buy them for all my friends!!!
And then my dad squashed my dream. He said there are losses and it would not work. I was ready for this. I told him I would gear up my gen-set as much as it took to over come these losses. In other words, spin it faster. Dang I'm smart!!!!
Here comes my dad again.........with his it won't work speach. Sad but true story.
Just like H generators, it still won't work and I never did get my Honda 50.
I wish I could have got into selling H generators back then!!! With the way people are believing this stuff, I could have bough the Honda dealer...........or five!!!!
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
Wilber1,
Your question was a good one, it got lots of people to think about it. There isn't a simple solution. There are a lot of very smart people working on a solution and lots of ideas are floating around. IMO, future cars will be electric someday, right now, the batteries don't exist yet to make it as convenient as gasoline. Right now today, the best bet is probably something like the VW TDI diesel. With a real car that gets 50mpg, thats hard to beat. For city stop and go driving, one of the hybrids is good. There are battery powered cars around now, they are either very expensive, or very short ranged. Typically 40 miles. For those that can commute to work and back in 40 miles, it might work out. At the end of 40 miles, it takes hours to recharge. Other systems are being worked as well, but in each case, there are hurdles to overcome, and all cost much more than what we already have.
The compressed air car has been around for a couple of decades, maybe in the 70's. Its really not much better than a spring powered car. Small car, short range. Most of us want air conditioning, entertainment, power windows, etc. If you are willing to accept a very small car with no creature comforts, you can get a 100 mpg gas powered car. I wouldn't want to ride in it.
AlanB wrote: If you are willing to accept a very small car with no creature comforts, you can get a 100 mpg gas powered car. I wouldn't want to ride in it.
VW had a diesel hybrid Golf at the Geneva auto show this year that gets 70 MPG US but I understand it may have been shelved because of production costs. If oil prices keep rising the way they have though, it may become viable sooner than thought.
Hey guys,
Instead of pontificating in my library, wearing my smoking jacket, and puffing on my pipe while stroking my beard, (I have none of those), I decided to check it out myself. With all the information I found online, I was able to put together an HHO generator and installed it on my 1995 Class A 31' motorhome.
What intrigued me to check this out is that I own several gas guzzlers, the greatest guzzler being my motorhome. When I pull my 2000 Ford Explorer with my tow dolly, I can really drink up the gasoline. I'm not a very slow driver either. Typically, while driving between 65 and 75 mph and towing the Explorer, I was getting around 6 mpg on the highway.
The more plausible claims that I read on the internet were to expect around a 50 percent increase in mpg. There were plenty of wild claims out there as there are in any industry. That's why I don't listen to the pontificating crackpots and checked it out for myself.
I built a six pack HHO because my engine is a 454 chevy, and I put it on the RV because, 1-I was camping in it 215 miles away over the 4th, and 2-it is pre 1996 and has no O2 sensors, so I don't have to fool the computer.
On the way to the campsite I drove between 65 and 75 mph as I usually do. I didn't fill up again until I was ready to leave today (Yes, the suspense was killing me and my friend who was camping in his RV next to me). When I did the simple calculation, I was very pleased to see that I got 9 mpg! You may think OMG, 9 mpg is terrible! What I was really thinking was OMG, I have 12 more gallons of gas in my tank than I would have had otherwise! I saved $48, one way!!! That's huge!
On the way back I restrained myself and tried to keep it between 55 and 60 mph. I did very well until I was 80 miles from home and hit a traffic backup due to an accident that was miles long. After waiting in it for 30 minutes, I worked my way to the next exit and got off. I took slower back roads for 85 miles to home, unloaded the motorhome, and filled it up. I figured all my hard work at keeping my speed down was blown by the traffic jam and going sub 45 mph in lower gears (I hit overdrive at about 50 mph). Again, I was very pleasantly suprised that I was able to get 10 mpg!
Yes, I'm sold... and I recommend you naysayers get off your butts and try it out... or shut up!
Next, I'm making one for my 2001 Excursion, my 2006 F-150, my two 1999 Suburbans, and yes, my 2000 Explorer...
wgc wrote: Hey guys,
Instead of pontificating in my library, wearing my smoking jacket, and puffing on my pipe while stroking my beard, (I have none of those), I decided to check it out myself. With all the information I found online, I was able to put together an HHO generator and installed it on my 1995 Class A 31' motorhome.
What intrigued me to check this out is that I own several gas guzzlers, the greatest guzzler being my motorhome. When I pull my 2000 Ford Explorer with my tow dolly, I can really drink up the gasoline. I'm not a very slow driver either. Typically, while driving between 65 and 75 mph and towing the Explorer, I was getting around 6 mpg on the highway.
The more plausible claims that I read on the internet were to expect around a 50 percent increase in mpg. There were plenty of wild claims out there as there are in any industry. That's why I don't listen to the pontificating crackpots and checked it out for myself.
I built a six pack HHO because my engine is a 455 chevy, and I put it on the RV because, 1-I was camping in it 215 miles away over the 4th, and 2-it is pre 1996 and has no O2 sensors, so I don't have to fool the computer.
On the way to the campsite I drove between 65 and 75 mph as I usually do. I didn't fill up again until I was ready to leave today (Yes, the suspense was killing me and my friend who was camping in his RV next to me). When I did the simple calculation, I was very pleased to see that I got 9 mpg! You may think OMG, 9 mpg is terrible! What I was really thinking was OMG, I have 12 more gallons of gas in my tank than I would have had otherwise! I saved $48, one way!!! That's huge!
On the way back I restrained myself and tried to keep it between 55 and 60 mph. I did very well until I was 80 miles from home and hit a traffic backup due to an accident that was miles long. After waiting in it for 30 minutes, I worked my way to the next exit and got off. I took slower back roads for 85 miles to home, unloaded the motorhome, and filled it up. I figured all my hard work at keeping my speed down was blown by the traffic jam and going sub 45 mph in lower gears (I hit overdrive at about 50 mph). Again, I was very pleasantly suprised that I was able to get 10 mpg!
Yes, I'm sold... and I recommend you naysayers get off your butts and try it out... or shut up!
Next, I'm making one for my 2001 Excursion, my 2006 F-150, my two 1999 Suburbans, and yes, my 2000 Explorer...
Thats great news. I just forked over some $ for the plans and am in the process of building a set-up. Where most people go wrong is they mistake hydrogen technology for this supplimental system which uses "Browns Gas" (HHO). Browns gas has been in use for years due its unique qualities. Just google " Browns Gas" and see for yourself. It is very possible to run an engine on 100% HHO and it has been done. The problem with using 100% HHO as a fuel is not if it will work, but the fact it takes much more energy to produce the amount of HHO needed to run the engine than you get out. HHO as a suppliment is a totally different approach. I will post my results...good or bad..
Brad
If you have a vehicle with O2 sensors, you have to install an O2 enhancer. It takes the voltage from the O2 sensor and increases it slightly to fool the computer. What happens is the exhaust is cleaner and the O2 sensor senses more oxygen. Thinking that the engine is burning too lean, it sends a signal to the computer to dump more fuel into the engine. The HHO generator improves the mpg's and the O2 enhancer helps to keep it there.
I installed the HHO generator on my motorhome first because it was the only pre 1996 engine I had. I didn't want to go out and invest in a bunch of O2 enhancers at $115 each without knowing if HHO would work. My next test is going to be on my 2001 Excursion V10. If it works as I think it will, all my vehicles will be running with HHO.
I think that one of the reasons the automakers are dragging their feet with this is that it does require some minimal maintenance. You need to add water every couple of months and you will probably need to strip it down and clean it every once in a while. Most people are lazy and don't want to bother with that kind of thing. Heck, most people don't even change their oil. They just keep adding more until they trade it in.
I think that one of the reasons the automakers are dragging their feet with this is that it does require some minimal maintenance.
When thinking about auto makers, remember this;
How long did it take Ford to make hydraulic brakes standard, even though GM and Chrysler had been using them for years?
How long did it take Ford, Pontiac, Dodge, Chrysler, etc. to build overhead valve engines, even though Chevrolet and Buick had them for years?
How long did the straight 8 last in many makes, even though Ford had the V8 in 1932, and Chevy built one in 1916 (but never put it into production)?
How long were disc brakes available on European cars before the U.S. auto makers strarted using them? And then, only on the FRONT!
I think that "Why don't the auto makers use it if it is so good!" is the lamest excuse there is! The U.S. auto makers have a very poor record when it comes to embracing innovative thinking. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they are in such dire straights at the moment.
CM1, USN (RET)
'94 Dodge 3500 4X2 CTD, Std. cab, LB, 5 speed, 4.10 LS diff., Jacobs Rambrake, 273,000 Miles
'99 Monaco McKenzie 32' triple slide
'95 Tioga 29H Ford-based Class C
Daily driver: '06 Jeep Liberty CRD
Towed: '06 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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