junmy3 wrote: All I know is that DW and I were walking in the neighborhood when a non aggressive dog on a leash turned around and bit DW in the leg. It was so fast that the owner did not even know what her dog had done. The problem is that no one in this forum has a dog that barks when left alone, everyone picks up after their dog, no one owns a dog that will bite, it is just that there are way too many campers that are not a part of this forum
You made a very good point here. Everyone seems to think their dog is perfect and would never do anything wrong, but let me enlighten you here. ANY BREED OF DOG, REGARDLESS OF SIZE CAN AND WILL BECOME AGGRESSIVE IF GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. No dog is a little angel 24/7.
JJ & Sandie
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"Blanket statements" about anything in life just doesn't work.
That's what is wrong with all these bans. AND then people start believing it, it's on TV the news and now in CG's so it must be true right?
Westminster Dog Show everyone knows about, it many watch it, it hits all the news media for the days it runs.
Example of every known 'banned' breed all gathered in one venue.
1. 140,000 to 150,000 competitors and visitors attend over the four days.
2. Over 2,500 dogs representing 165 breeds attend. In a VERY VERY small venue. TV only airs BIS in the ring. Not the benched/grooming areas, words can not describe how small this is.
3.Benched - the Westminster is a true benched show. When they are not being groomed, exercised or shown, all the dogs are on public display at their assigned bench place. Thus there is aisle after aisle of dogs on view which gives the opportunity for dog lovers to discuss them and share information and knowledge.(face to face no crates and close close quarters and add a lot of not so bright spectators to this brew)
4. From noon until almost midnight the narrow isles between the benches were almost impassable from all the people.
AND guess what? No child or person is maimed by any specific breed during this event!
In what can only be described by us exhibitors is mass mayhem in cramped quarters.
If the breed bans had any truth to them, then at this event thousands of people would be bit, there would be thousands of dog fights and according to so-called facts regarding bans, then 100's of people would have died from being attacked.
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Instead of getting into a p___ing contest, as this is now headed, why doesn't someone contact one or two CG owners and ask this question?? Having worked in more than one CG as workampers, the answer is one thing only, it is insurance driven. The insurance industry says what will be placed in the rules, not the CG owner. Read your own home owners policy and more than 50% of you will find the same restrictions in your home insurance.
Bob & Betsy - USN Ret'd '78 & FL LEO Ret'd '03 FMCA #F203528 '05 HR Endeavor, 40PRQ w/400 Cummins - With -'05 GMC Sierra LT, CC Z-71, the pusher '07 Arctic Cat 500A & Wilderness Kayak, riding in the pusher - Our Current Location
The Texan wrote: snip.....it is insurance driven....snip
I agree, private CG liability premiums increase dramatically with specific breed of dogs. This very subject was an issue with the private CG that I'm a member.
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The Texan wrote: snip.....it is insurance driven....snip
I agree, private CG liability premiums increase dramatically with specific breed of dogs. This very subject was an issue with the private CG that I'm a member. Turk2500
This is true but many of these state bills on bans where found to be 'unconstitutional and were rescinded' but yet the insurance company's did not contact their clients and remove the restrictions from their policies.
Which by the way several insurance companies are being brought up on charges for not doing do.
CG's and home owners alike need to look up the restrictions within their county for the 'actual' bill (if there even is one), and STOP relying on what is heard on the 10:00 news.
And I have not found one bill that describes 'dangerous' or 'agressive' difinitively enough to be included within a bill.
Until a breed identification DNA test is required (it is available), using a health certificate or rabies certif to identify breed is at best unreliable. What happens is at first visit a client tells us what they think the dog is, often a guess by them or by a worker at a shelter. It is VERY difficult to tell breed in a 6-12 week old puppy.
By way of example: I saw a 55 pound "terrier cross" last wednesday, she was about 5 years old. She was not overweight and a great example of a retriever breed crossed with something, maybe husky or collie.
The point is we guess. When we start limiting access to campground or prohibit ownership of certain dogs, we need a better method than "best guess."
I understand and support a campground rule about "aggressive dogs" (not aggressive breeds) even though they are vague. This is necessary for our safety and the safety of our pets. Now if they were enforced, that's another matter.
Doug, DVM
Doug & Sandy
Megan (14 yr old Golden)
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2001 Honda CRV
One of the best pet friendly campgrounds anywhere is Four Paws Kingdom link. They cater to dogs and discourage children. However even they restrict certain breeds due to insurance concerns.
"Insurance regulations prohibit us from accommodating a limited number of breeds. We apologize for this measure. We know that these breeds are often part of your family and can be the kindest and friendliest dogs around, but the insurance industry makes the rules and we have to follow these rules to obtain liability insurance and stay in business (after all, we are a one-of-a-kind niche business).
We apologize to the owners of the following breeds/mixes:
Rottweilers, Bull Terrier and Miniature Bull Terrier, American Pitbull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier (Amstaff) and Pitbull Mixes."
This is from a Campground whose business depends on dogs.
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fpresto wrote: .....We apologize to the owners of the following breeds/mixesottweilers, Bull Terrier and Miniature Bull Terrier, American Pitbull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier (Amstaff) and Pitbull Mixes."This is from a Campground whose business depends on dogs.
I find the inclusion of these 2 breeds just plain ludicrous.
The ONLY reason they are included is because the word bull is within the name.
And as Doc mentioned....WHO's the 'expert' at the CG office that is going to determine if you mutt is a mix of one of these?
Thank you to the animal folks who are posting. I have no problem purchasing my own insurance at the CG like so many other things. I can buy insurance when flying. I'll pay $10.00 more for assurance I'm not going to have a problem.
-c
"1. 140,000 to 150,000 competitors and visitors attend over the four days.
2. Over 2,500 dogs representing 165 breeds attend. In a VERY VERY small venue. TV only airs BIS in the ring. Not the benched/grooming areas, words can not describe how small this is.
3.Benched - the Westminster is a true benched show. When they are not being groomed, exercised or shown, all the dogs are on public display at their assigned bench place. Thus there is aisle after aisle of dogs on view which gives the opportunity for dog lovers to discuss them and share information and knowledge.(face to face no crates and close close quarters and add a lot of not so bright spectators to this brew)
4. From noon until almost midnight the narrow isles between the benches were almost impassable from all the people.
AND guess what?
No child or person is maimed by any specific breed during this event!
In what can only be described by us exhibitors is mass mayhem in cramped quarters.
If the breed bans had any truth to them, then at this event thousands of people would be bit, there would be thousands of dog fights and according to so-called facts regarding bans, then 100's of people would have died from being attacked."
Think about the logic of the conclusion drawn from these statements. The Westminster Dog Show, thousands of dogs (usually constrained), with thousands of PROFESSIONAL handlers , experts in dog breeds and behaviors, taking care of thousands of pampered and expensive show dogs, living with them 24/7, sheltering them from most of the public that attends this show. Dogs that were selectively bred for that narrow purpose of the show ring, for confirmation that is constantly evolving at the whim of the current fad (rakish, slope backed German Shepards that in no way resemble the original breed or physical necessity of their original purpose), and then compare that to dogs, pure and mixed breed, tied in back yards, penned in seething neighborhoods of poverty and crime, unattended in rural settings, "guarding" homes and possession, possessed by ignorant and careless owners, reckless owners.
How does the experience of the Westminster Dog Show approximate the reality of what goes on in this nation as a whole? What can we conclude about the dangers posed by any breed of dog to humans or other dogs by using this venue as an example?
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