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 > fuel injector cleaners????

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tonkatoys

maine

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Posted: 09/21/08 07:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

are fuel injector cleaners that you add to your gas tank like bardalls etc worth the money? do they really clean the injectors and other fuel systems or just a waste of money?


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8.1 Van

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Posted: 09/21/08 08:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Techron made by Chevron is the best of the ones in auto parts stores.
Techron


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Rubiranch

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Posted: 09/21/08 09:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have seen the best results from BG44K from a single application.

I use Chevron and have for years. When I worked on cars and you would take an intake manifold off and you could see the back side of the intake valves it was always very clear as to who ran Chevron with Techron, those we by far the cleanest with the least amount of deposits built up.


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KeninAZ

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Posted: 09/21/08 09:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I use Techron every 25-35K
Something else it will do for you is keep the fuel sending unit clean in your tank so your fuel gauge works right.

Kajtek1

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Posted: 09/21/08 09:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Techron is just better detergent.
Real enthusiast swear by Seafom. That stuff is pretty aggressive and needs to be used with caution. On the side of adding to fuel, it can be poured into intake system (via vacuum tube) to clean the gunk on the intake. I used it on diesel with no visible results.
Our original Mercedes is reaching 100,000 miles. Have been always filled up with cheapest gas in Bay Area and never had any cleaner used. Runs perfect.
Now how the fuel cleaner injected with fuel on the top of the piston could clean top of the valves?


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8.1 Van

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Posted: 09/21/08 10:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Seafoam, as with many additives, consists of a solvent in a light oil carrier. Iirc in the case of Seafoam the solvent is naphtha. It works OK for dissolving fuel varnish because that's what it's designed to do. The problem with injecting it into your manifold is that 1) It's not very effective and 2) You end up burning the oil carrier. That's why it smokes so badly. Burning oil from any source isn't good for your engine and it especially isn't good for your catalytic converter if you have one.

I prefer using water for de-carbonization and using a top tier gasoline along with a PAE (polyetheramine) based fuel additive a couple of times a year. That'll keep everything including the injectors clean. Gumout Regane (the yellow stuff in the clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate are all PAE based.

I said what the consequences are in a recent thread. It was rebuked so I left it up to the members to decide. You have to remember I deal with this sort of stuff all the time so when I run into those who "know better" I back off.

I'll say it again: The product has it's uses but this isn't one of them. Using it this way only lightens your wallet and shortens the life of your cat without benefit. The product is mostly light oil. Where do you think all the smoke comes from? Since when is combusting oil in either the cylinders or converter good? Rich mixtures kill cats so oil won't? If it removes any carbon it'll only be a tiny amount. If all you have is a tiny amount you're doing more harm then good because a small amount works to protect the piston crown. Good thing it comes right back, which makes the "treatment" even more of a waste. If you want to clean excessive carbon use water injection, an overnight piston soak, walnut blasting, or any of the other *proven* methods. Once it's gone keep it at bay by regular use of a PEA based fuel additive.

Aside from all the other tests you could've done a simple way for verifying it's lack of effectiveness is to examine the motor, including the valves, before and after using a borescope. I have a surplus medical instrument I use for those jobs. It was originally designed for, well, lets just say it's been shoved inside far worse places than a motor. I would've suggested doing this except it's already been done by myself and many, many other people who aren't as gullible as most of the public. The results are always the same: it does squat. People who swear by it don't do science. They accept anecdotal evidence from others. Being ignorant is not the same as being a dumbass but imo anyone who uses something without understanding the science behind it, based on what others say who also don't, is.

At least you did some "research" even if it wasn't the best kind. And like most people you did it after the fact. Frankly, if I was going to rely on what others say about a product's effectiveness (and I never do) I'd sure as hell require a lot better than 50% odds before any cash came flying outta my wallet. And even if the product did work I'll point out injecting anything into the brake booster line results in a very poor distribution of it across cylinders. If you feel a need to dump stuff into your engine do it upstream of the plenum, through the throttle body for example.

As I said, the product has it's uses. It's popular with bikers for a reason. I ride also and used Seafoam in the fuel for years. The naphtha in Seafoam works well to clean fuel varnish in my Vulcan's carbs but after a bit of study and testing I found something that does a better job. Since you brought up Techron and I brought up PEA here ya go. It's the same stuff:

PEA is Polyether Amine. It's the active chemical in Techron and a few other aftermarket fuel cleaners. Chevron's Oronite Division is the inventor and world's largest supplier these days:

http://tinyurl.com/y8v5ad

PEA is used in varying amounts in almost every quality gasoline made. The problem is unless you use one from the day an engine is new or rebuilt it takes time to clean things up. That and the amount varies from one fuel brand to another. The way to overcome this is to use a PEA based cleaner a few times a year or with every oil change and a good quality fuel (www.toptiergas.com) in between.

Typical fuel cleaners are solvent based and therefore cheap. They don't do much other than make your idle nice and that isn't from any cleaning action. PEA cleaners cost more because PEA is expensive to produce compared to solvents but also far more effective. The leading PEA based cleaners are GumOut Regane (yellow stuff in clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate. Each of these products has any where from appx 30-50% PEA with RedLine SI-1 having a slight edge. The cheaper Techron ProGuard also contains PEA but at a lower concentration. Not a good value.

Gumout Large Vehicle Fuel System Cleaner in the gold bottle is also PEA based. It contains the same percentage of PEA as does Regane but in a different carrier. It's 20 oz size makes for a better value if you can find it. Be sure it says "fuel system cleaner" and not "fuel injector cleaner". The bottles look nearly identical but the fuel injector cleaner contains no PEA.

Cat glowing red after Seafoam treatment

JPhelps

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Posted: 09/21/08 11:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sea Foam works wonders on gummed carburetors. It would probably work just as well on gummed injectors.
It saved me lots of money on my outboard motor. I thought its three carbs would have to be rebuilt but Sea Foam saved the day.

Engineer9860

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Posted: 09/21/08 12:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have used various off the shelf fuel injector cleaners that you pour into your gas tank. All that I have tried seem to give some improvement.

Do not overtreat, as this can dry out or degrade o-ring seals in the fuel system over time.

I have used 10% ethanol blend fuel from a local reliable retailer for about 10+ years. Since then, I haven't really noticed the need to use any type of injector cleaner.

Even my 1997 Blazer with 209,000mi still idles so smoothly that you cannot tell it is running.


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