Jamesrpm wrote: And after all this , are you sure your schools will want your old computer? Ours only want newer ones so they don't get stuck with someone's old junk they have to spend money on to dispose of.
I have to agree with this too. The kids would take one look and have a good laugh at it.
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Gdetrailer wrote: scratcherky writes "In short, mechanically destroy the hard drive is the only sure way! "
Thats a Myth!
Many of the overwriting programs that where posted above will do a fine job of rearrainging the drive data. There really is no need to physically destroy the hard drive.
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Another sure way is to reimage the drive, Drive image (still may be
Just not sure why folks feel that physical destruction is the key.
Not quite true. Whenever a track is written to a drive, a slight overlap to each side is also written. Each pass over the area of a track is never quite in the same place, but is close enough that reading or writing makes little practical difference. Yet there remains that faint ghost image that is still the remains of the original data. NSA for one, with their sophisticated disk readers has recovered information from drives overwritten with rather sophisticated software. Granted, most information thieves probably can't read those side tracks, and neither do most of us have enough top secret information that would warrant such tactics, but the fact does remain that still the truth is that the ONLY sure way of absolutely protecting your information is to destroy your old drive.
This is what I would tell my clients who had lots of customer and company data on their old systems. It was cheaper for them buy an inexpensive hard drive, substitute that for the original, and destroy the old one before donating any old computers. That way there was no way of anyone coming back to them with any claims for information mismanagement. And it was all deductible as a donation.
dacepcpowernet writes "Not quite true. Whenever a track is written to a drive, a slight overlap to each side is also written. Each pass over the area of a track is never quite in the same place, but is close enough that reading or writing makes little practical difference. Yet there remains that faint ghost image that is still the remains of the original data. NSA for one, with their sophisticated disk readers has recovered information from drives overwritten with rather sophisticated software. Granted, most information thieves probably can't read those side tracks, and neither do most of us have enough top secret information that would warrant such tactics, but the fact does remain that still the truth is that the ONLY sure way of absolutely protecting your information is to destroy your old drive.
This is what I would tell my clients who had lots of customer and company data on their old systems. It was cheaper for them buy an inexpensive hard drive, substitute that for the original, and destroy the old one before donating any old computers. That way there was no way of anyone coming back to them with any claims for information mismanagement. And it was all deductible as a donation. "
GDE says, dave, hate to burst your bubble, I work with potential HIPAA info on a daily basis, if what you claim is true then how could SYMANTEC (a VERY BIG software company) make such claims as they do?
Under key features "Meets the highest industry standards for secure system retirement and data disposal, including Department of Defense standard DoD 5220.22-M."
I have been working with HDs from the days of MFM and RLL controllers, I can tell you that there are many ways that are mechanically non destructive to eliminate personal data. Some are slow and some are very fast.
Ghost imaging (and other HD imaging software) is a very fast and reliable way to fully remove personal info.
Low level format (this is not a DOS format, DOS FAT and NTFS is a high level format) will completely rearrainge the PHYSICAL location of the sectors, then you would need to partition and format (DOS/Windows) and load the OS. Rather time consuming. Not generally recommended for modern IDE/SATA drives since this will rewrite the bad sector and partition list.
Overwrite drive with blank data such as 1s and 0s, very time consumming but thorough.
Magnetic erasing, yep, you can buy a magnetic eraser that is used for erasing video tapes but is also rated to fully erase a stack of hard drives! The draw back of this is the fact that some vital info (track zero) is lost which will not allow the HD to be reused (no user data in this area anyway).
Smashing should only be a last resort since the data is STILL on the platters. Even if you put a hole through the platters the data STILL exists, metal platters can be unbent (a good autobody repair man could be able to do this in minutes), to the point (flat and true) where data may be recoverable. You do realize that smashing does not cause the data to "fall" off the platters?
Actually a smart thief could target "smashed" drives, if someone went to the effort to destroy the drive, that would mean that there is a goldmine of info waiting to be mined...
By the way you do realize that telling people to smash HDs IS EXPOSING them to potential lead and other heavy metals risk?
Thats right, smashing ICs, transistors, circuit boards will release many harmful metals. Even the newer RoHS (lead free) compatable HDs should not be smashed since the ICs and transistors will STILL contain many other harmful heavy metals. DEP and Hazzmat folks won't be laughing.
In addition some HDs use platters made from tempered glass, now you are exposing them to potential explosion hazzards. Yep, I personally have seen Glass Platters explode.
THE ONLY REASON I would suggest smashing a HD is if it has suffered an unrecoverable crash, then the drive would need to be carefully smashed in a area that can contain flying parts and you could garrantee that no one will be exposed to potential heavy metals (yep, that means personal safety equipment, Eye/Face, respirator, coveralls, gloves). All items would then be considered hazzardous materials which should not be disposed in regular trash.
The only reason people find smashing a good idea is because they FEEL that it is CHEAP and they FEEL safe, it is neither.
dave, I would recommend that you alter your game plan, offer your clients a software wipe using a known good program for a small fee or even free (generates repeat and new business). Use this instead of selling a new harddrive, this would be much better for you, the client, the enviroment.
Also some charities like Goodwill not only accept computers (limited locations, not all will accept computers) but they also will perform a wipe for you, FREE when you donate. Just ask!
My Personal Info safety tips, never store personal financial info, SSN info, credit card numbers, health info, Passwords, Login info, or other possible data that someone could use if they steal your computer (it does happen and there is a better chance of someone lifting data from you in this case).
Your personal info is always at risk as long as it is on your PC and your PC is connected to the internet since no matter how good the protection is there is always new Virus's, worms, trojans, malware, adware, keyloggers, dataminers and so on.
Avoid installing/using internet file sharing software/sites (shouldn't really have to say this) since they can fully defeat any protection that you have (backdoor).
If you must store this type of info, buy an encryption program or store it on a Thumb drive and use the encryption program (Thumb drives can be formated and also passed on when no longer usefull).
If you dealing with sensitive data, use strong passwords, these passwords should use at least one capital leter, one lower case letter, one number (such as 1, 2, 3 and so one), no personal names, words or such. Substitute a different letter in a word such as Kat instead of Cat.
If you have multiple passwords you can get programs that can manage them properly and securely.
I will get off my soapbox now...
Note to self, I really should quit reading these forums...
" have been working with HDs from the days of MFM and RLL controllers, I can tell you that there are many ways that are mechanically non destructive to eliminate personal data. Some are slow and some are very fast.
Low level format (this is not a DOS format, DOS FAT and NTFS is a high level format) will completely rearrainge the PHYSICAL location o
I will get off my soapbox now...
Note to self, I really should quit reading these forums...
Now you don't want to do that!
Just look at all the good discussions we can have.
First, I do not dispute anything you replied with. Everything you said I agree with, but . . . Perceived liability with any information potentially on a drive for the people who are professional skeptics (read lawyers?).
I personally have been working with drives since the days of the 30-30 Winchester - 30 platters, 30 megabytes and the PC drives since g=c800:5 to low level format them using debug. I think we probably started on PCs with the first 10Mb drives that became the IBM XT.
Anyway, before this thread is limited for any further "argument" I at least wanted to clear the air that you are perfectly correct, but also I still maintain that given the time and labor for a company to wipe drives is more expensive than replacing them with a cheap IDE drive. With the adoption of Vista, many XP systems are being discarded that are still more than adequate for many schools that don't have the funds to purchase the latest and greatest. I know, for I taught for 3 years after retiring in a computer/electronics program in a high school level classroom. Older system are generally not welcome, however.
Jamesrpm wrote: And after all this , are you sure your schools will want your old computer? Ours only want newer ones so they don't get stuck with someone's old junk they have to spend money on to dispose of.
I have a niece who teaches in a rural Alabama school with a modest budget. I described the computer that I was about to sledge hammer and she said she could definitely use it. That is how we came to tihs point.
Jamesrpm, WE LOVE THE OREGON COAST.
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Jamesrpm wrote: And after all this , are you sure your schools will want your old computer? Ours only want newer ones so they don't get stuck with someone's old junk they have to spend money on to dispose of.
I have a niece who teaches in a rural Alabama school with a modest budget. I described the computer that I was about to sledge hammer and she said she could definitely use it. That is how we came to tihs point.
Jamesrpm, WE LOVE THE OREGON COAST.
I agree with sledgehammer.
Remove the case, pull out the hard drive and unplug it as you do. Carefully place the hard drive on a concrete surface. Put on your safety glasses, grab the sledgehammer, and repeatedly smash the ^%#^* out of it. When done pick up all the pieces and place in a plastic garbage container.
Problem solved.
If someone else wants computer - contact supply house and purchase new hard drive- very reasonably priced.
That ----- is how I handle my old computers. Have way too much stuff on there that I don't want to fall into the wrong hands (legal and financial stuff).
God Bless
Bill
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too bad the ability to get that information is far far out of the reach of anyone who even ran a simple 3x overwrite program. i work in the industry, the labs that can retrieve this information use thousands upon thousands of dollars of equipment, to get sometimes less then 1% of information off an old drive which took close to 25 hours to even get.
NO geek squad nerd is going to have this software/equipment just lying around, its not rocket science, a free program will do the same thing as a paid program, simply writing different characters over a couple times, will be more then adequate for practically anyone who actually cares enough to even try to read data off the old drive.
my job actually is data storage and i am less paranoid then most of people responding to this post, all i run is a simple 3x overwrite if i even care, hell the 7 pass is good enough for the DOD certification, but people here still don't feel thats enough. lol i hate to break it to all of you but a 7 pass data erasure is the most a corporations equipment will get before getting removed... that includes systems containing information about medical billing,SSN, and all other really really private stuff.
LittleBill wrote: lol i hate to break it to all of you but a 7 pass data erasure is the most a corporations equipment will get before getting removed... that includes systems containing information about medical billing,SSN, and all other really really private stuff.
Yeah and as I've posted before, Blue Cross Blue Shield already lost a laptop with my (along with half of NJ) medical history, billing information, SSN and credit card #. At some point you just stop worrying about that stuff and a credit agency report automatically if anyone accesses it.
Don't worry, be happy!
Dave
Life doesn't come with a safety fence around it... enjoy it anyway.
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