So far the discussion is avoiding the detail that I consider crucial.
What are the overnight charges? I usually camp at beautiful Sierra sites for $12 a night. Than I attended rallies that gave me a site with picnic table set over neighbor's sewer pipe and they charged "per foot, per head and per tail" Totaling over $60 per night. Would you consider $60 for overnight parking a fair charge?
If one feels that the cost of overnight parking is excessive, the solution is simple. Just go someplace else where the cost is what you want to pay. Wal-Marts are free.
bumpy
So far the discussion is avoiding the detail that I consider crucial.
What are the overnight charges? I usually camp at beautiful Sierra sites for $12 a night. Than I attended rallies that gave me a site with picnic table set over neighbor's sewer pipe and they charged "per foot, per head and per tail" Totaling over $60 per night. Would you consider $60 for overnight parking a fair charge?
If one feels that the cost of overnight parking is excessive, the solution is simple. Just go someplace else where the cost is what you want to pay. Wal-Marts are free.
bumpy
Maybe the local campgrounds lobbied to get overnighting banned at the local Wal-Mart. In that case, the campgrounds are getting their just desserts!
When traveling cross country last year, I arrived at an Ohio state park well after the office staff had left, and was going to be leaving well before they arrived in the morning. The ranger told me to call the office when I got home and pay for the site by mail or credit card.
To assume that EVERYONE who arrives late and leaves early is "stealing services" (as some have implied) is just plain ignorant and assinine.
RVnRobin wrote: Some of the ideas we talked to local officials about:
-The use of cameras brought up a huge discussion about issuing tickets from privatly owned cameras vs a licensed and bonded security company. Found out this is a pretty grey area in our community. The consensus is that privately owned cameras are for observation only rather than to collect evidence. (Seems like a local snafu.)
This is a ticket, you want them charged with a crime. You list NW, is your campground in OR or WA? If so, it's a jailable offense in both states.
I can't understand why it would matter who recorded the video, it is evidence of a crime, and you're turning it over to the police. If it went to trial, you would have to testify to the authenticity of the tape.
RVnRobin wrote: -Since it is not a ticketable offense, we would be required to file in Small Claims Courts and pay for our own attorney expense. (This will cost more than what we are trying to recover.
You tack on all those expenses as collection costs.
Plus ask for punitive damages. Point out to the court the extra expenses you have for enforcing the scofflaws. If they really are folks in $300,000 motor homes, they won't get a lot of sympathy.
There are a lot of what ifs and far reaching stretches of imagination going on here. The real impact for your projected 20 violators per year is $1000 of lost revenue at $50 per night. There is not much you can do for less than $1000 to make it worth your while to even worry about.
As for why they do it. Rationalization is the strongest human drive in my book. They will come up with a good reason, as some have posted here, not to pay.
As for why they do it. Rationalization is the strongest human drive in my book. They will come up with a good reason, as some have posted here, not to pay.
I wouldn't classify any reason given here as "good". they are just cheapskates, cheaters, and stealing. none of that is good IMHO.
bumpy
tommyznr wrote: There are a lot of what ifs and far reaching stretches of imagination going on here. The real impact for your projected 20 violators per year is $1000 of lost revenue at $50 per night. There is not much you can do for less than $1000 to make it worth your while to even worry about.
As for why they do it. Rationalization is the strongest human drive in my book. They will come up with a good reason, as some have posted here, not to pay.
I agree that this is probably the most reasonable answer to the "What to do" issue. Dollar wise it is minor and every solution is far more expensive than the loss. The "Why they do it" issue, as has been observed in this thread, varies from "you owe me" to "I forgot". The recent increase, I don't know... Lots of societal changes in the past 60 years. Let alone the past 6 months. Perhaps it is time to put the discussion to rest.
RVnRobin and DW.
Love my 94 Dodge 2500 almost as much as I love my DW.
First off, I sympathize with your dilemma, You're asking for an explanation of what honorable people (like most of us) would consider irrational behavior. I think there might be more than one explanation, but this is sociopathic behavior none the less. I can't explain it and I can't excuse it. That's why most of the responses you got were not an answer to your original question, "Why?", but more along the line of how to fix it.
So, here's my $.02 worth. The deterrents (gates, cameras, armed guards...) will be effective for just about all your freeloaders except the repeat offenders. These folks are not looking to stay at your CG, they are looking for anyplace they can get into easily and get out of without a chance of getting caught. I don't think they are "casing the joint". I think it's just an impulse decision that would change if they didn't think they would get away with it easily. There are a whole lot more people with signs on their homes saying there is an alarm than there are actual alarms.
If you have a bunch of repeat offenders, then the only effective thing would be to confront them. Preferably with a LEO at your side.
If you want to stop it (and I think you should) you probably will have to use both a deterrent and confrontation. At least until the repeat offenders get the message. Your CG will be better for it and the cost can be quite small if you handle it right. I bet there are plenty of retired LEOs who would love a Host Camper spot in your CG.
DW and I in our Gulfstream Amerilite 21MB
Chevy Silverado 2500 HD - Duramax Diesel 6.6L - Allison Tranny
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - Major Mike Shearer - British Army - Basra, Iraq
How about doing a "site" check after the 11 o'clock news? Take turns so no one is stuck being the night owl. By 11:30 I would think most people are in for the night.
Fill all the front "easy" sites first forcing a late arrival to drive thru to get to his space.
Put a sign out BIG and well lit that the park is full.
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