javaseuf wrote: I appreciate the above clarifications, guys.
My question then still remains....
Not one of the many, many sellers of propane in California fills/sells propane by weight.
Not even the large propane distributors.
So how can they do this if they are breaking the DOT laws?
It has never been claimed that they can not fill by volume, only that it is a violation of DOT regs to do so. There are hundreds of regs that are violated daily with impunity.
Oxygen cylinders in aircraft, per DOT regs, have to be tested/re certified at specified intervals depending on type. I have, throughout the years, found more cylinders out of date than in, but have never heard of DOT violating anyone unless there is an accident involving one of the cylinders.
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So, I guess it is OK for suppliers to fill by gallons dispensed instead of weight, since everybody in SO MANY states does it.
I find it difficult to believe that ALL those businesses are violating the law with impunity!
Besides, they are NOT actually "filling by weight" OR "filling by volume", they are filling until the OPD shuts off, or the spitter valve shows liquid, whichever comes first. In fact, I have had cylinders filled where they don't open the spitter valve, they just pump propane in until the OPD shuts off!
Then they charge for the gallons/tenths pumped.
The simple fact is, some places rip you off with a flat fee, some places charge by the pound, and some places charge by the gallon.
I just don't believe that THAT many businesses in THAT many States can be in violation of Federal law with impunity!
When comparing exchange cylinders with filling cylinders, the exchange has always BEEN a "rip-off", IMO, that's why I have never used the service!
Capvin wrote: I really have gotten a chuckle out of many of the posts in this topic. So many are so off the mark that it would take too long to even comment on them all. I own a propane distributor in the Florida Keys and I will only say that as of right now (wholesale propane price fluctuate wildly almost every day) we fill a 20lb tank for $12.00 - $15.00. We use a certified scale and a meter to read the gallons pumped. 99% of the tanks filled take about 4 gallons. If MECREATURE was filling a 20lb tank and got it to about 7 gallons then it surely blew up while it was being filled. The 4 gallons is a bit over 80% of its liquid capacity. No one in their right mind ever fills any propane tank much over 80%. For the most part we rely on the meter and the overfill protection. When we fill the attached tanks of motorhomes we obviously rely on the gallonage meter. It is really that simple. There are no agreements amound distributors about what they will charge and everyone can charge what they think the traffic will bear. We like to get the majority of the business so we keep our fill pricing lower then most and it has worked out for us. We have never underfilled and charged for a complete fill and we never will. We do not do exchanges so I can not comment on that other then the exchange prices are considerably higher.
Don
I filled 3 30 lb tanks.. 2 got over 6 gallons and 1 was over 7... guess I could be wrong.. but I have done it several times.. It was snot freezing cold when I filled them. filled them till they squirted.
Sounds like another way for modern convenience to screw us out of a dollar. The poor gas companies are hurting and trying to save money by taking advantage of the public.. I have mine filled to heck with the exchange. Only used them to exchange my old bottles in to get new style... Anyhow 80% to allow for expansion on those hot summer days.
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I just received clarification on the DOT rules from a man at the National Propane Gas Association regarding the filling of propane cylinders by weight. Here is his response.
Steve,
The U.S. DOT does require portable cylinders that are “in commerce” to be filled by weight. However, if an individual brings a cylinder to a refiller, that individual’s cylinder can be filled volumetrically because it is not “in commerce,” which means it is not being transported on a cylinder truck or other commercial motor vehicle.
I recall that California has its own rules to be followed for filling cylinders. I don’t remember exactly what they are, however, so I’m copying Leslie Garland from the Western Propane Gas Association on this email because she will know for sure if the California rules differ and if so, what those rules are.
"Nobody knows how we got to the top of the hill, but since we're on our way down, we might as well enjoy the ride". ("The Secret Of Life", James Taylor).
Thank you for that information Steve and I apologize to all for the confusion I caused. I haven't found where in the regs it says "for commerce", but since these are Gov regs no one is supposed to be able to find anything anyway.
Just had a follow-up call from the Propane Association. The man wanted to let me know that California, as well as other states, are allowed to fill any cylinder by the volumetric (Gallon) method as long as they aren't offering that filled cylinder for sale (commerce).
In other words, if I wanted to offer pre-filled tanks from my dispensing station when I sold LPG at my repair shop, I would have had to fill those cylinders by weight.
People bringing in their own cyliners to be filled can have them filled by volume in any of the 50 states unless state law requires the weight method.
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