Bob, I was simply expressing what I would do. I was not trying to inflame or insult you. Electrical problems are not something I take lightly. Electrical issues have a tendency to evolve into extremely expensive lessons at times. Your coach told you there was an open neutral. Unless there was/is an issue with your monitor, this condition existed. An open neutral can hide, but it never corrects itself. I would not want this creature lurking inside MY coach, but what can you do? Metering won't show a potential or prior open circuit. Only a visual inspection will give you that answer. Most CGs won't inspect the pedestal, until someone's coach is fried or unless metering shows the circuit still open because of the cost. In simplest terms, an electrical charge comes into your coach via the black wire and returns via the white wire. Your monitor said there was a disruption somewhere in the return line. The fact it is now hiding indicates a loose wire, not a broken one, either at one of your connections or in the pedestal. So this leaves you two choices: 1. Inspect your plugs to ensure all your wires are securely attached, or 2. Simply monitor the meter in your coach to see if the critter returns. If it does, and you're lucky, go back and complete #1 above. If it doesn't, you're golden. Me? I'm too anal and too much of a worrier to assume it was the pedestal...Again, no offense intended, these are just my opinions. I've included a link to a short segment of why you get an open neutral/ground/reverse polarity. Wishing you all the best and happy travels wherever you may be....Dennis
Quote: Almost a perfect post with the exception of the GFCI. The GFCI works by monitoring the current balance between the HOT and the NEUTRAL. If there is a fault (i.e. electricity going through you instead of the circuit, the GFCI will trip). FYI, GFCIs do not need a ground wire to function properly. In fact, the NEC allows you to replace 2 prong outlets (that do not have a ground) with a GFCI outlet.
Modern GFCIs are designed to trip with either hot to ground or ground to neutral faults.
Hot to ground would cause an imbalance between the hot and neutral, so yes the GFCI would trip. You would also trip the breaker on a short like that.
Neutral to ground may cause an imbalance between the hot and neutral, so the GFCI may or may not trip. Remember, neutral and ground are at the same potential. The breaker probably would not trip.
Let's rethink this whole "I hope I die before I get old" thing.
Vegas Bob wrote: I have been at this campground for 1 week and all ok.
Today the meter I have in the motorhome displays
OPEN NEUTRAL please tell me what that means. If I
use a volt meter what am I looking for? If I go
from hot to neutral what should it read?
Was the only problem the light on the meters or were all your electrical devices dead?
This discussion illustrates a safety procedure that I see violated many times at campgrounds: when connecting or disconnecting from the pedestal you need to make sure the breaker at the pedestal is shut OFF. It's almost impossible to connect, or disconnect, that plug in such a manner that all 4 terminals make contact simultaneously - rocking the plug into place, or when pulling it out, is common - and that will cause you to have a momentary open neutral. So, even if the campground specifically posts "Do Not Shut Breaker Off" on the pedestal, the wise RVer will disregard that and shut off the breaker before plugging in, or unplugging.
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Alan & Sandy Hepburn driving a 2007 Fleetwood Bounder 35E on a Workhorse chassis - Charter Member: International Brotherhood of Weight Police - Proud to be a Blue Star Family!
JimM68 wrote: snip
As was stated, what should have been "devices on either hot phase are 115 volts to neutral" has become "devices on phase A are now in series with devices on pahes B and the total voltage available (220-240) will be dropped between them depending on actual resistance, ie: one device could see 5 volts, and the other could see 215!!!
OK, I need a little more splaination here to understand this. If you have an open neutral, wouldn't some appliances/outlets only be hooked to a hot side, and the neutral side of the outlet/appliance would be hooked to nothing? and the same thing would apply to the other hot side. How do these two hot outlets have their neutral side joined in series?
bumpy
The two hot legs are connected in series thru the appliances plugged in and the common neutral bus that all are connected to. So if you have 1 appliance plugged into each leg the path would be Hot "A" thru appliance to neutral - neutral thru appliance plugged into Hot "B" to Hot "B" completing the circuit.
yep, it finally dawned on me what was happening. basically with the neutrals connected and going nowhere, you would have a 240 volt circuit running thru whatever.
thanks,
bumpy
I metered the hot neutral and ground, this is a 50 amp
motorhome. From one hot to neutral 122.0v from the other hot
to neutral 120v from hot to ground 120v from ground to neutral
0v. Did the same thing at the campground power post
same readings. When I pluged the power cord back in
the open neutral light on the meter in the motorhome
went out. Now it reads ok. Thanks for everyones help.
check the condition of your shore cord plug, the connections for NEUTRAL inside CB distribution panel
this OPEN NEUTRAL problem must be found and repaired
Options, always have options, and the journey goes much smoother ....
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Quote: Remember, neutral and ground are at the same potential. The breaker probably would not trip.
The only time the ground & neutral are at the same potential is when there is no neutral current. The neutral conductor has resistance. If current is flowing through it, it must have a potential difference between the two ends of the wire (Ohm's law - E=IXR). Since the neutral & ground are both tied at the service entrance, the RV end of the neutral will be at a higher voltage than the ground. This is one of the reasons the ground & neutral should not be bonded (tied together) in the RV. If they are, part of the neutral current will also flow through the ground. The ground should only carry current in order to trip a breaker during a hot to ground fault.
Modern GFCIs include circuitry that opens them when they detect a ground/neutral connection. I believe this capability was added in the late 90's but I could be wrong on the date.
I'm a long time motor homer and a master electrician. I can tell you that loosing the neutral connection is about the worst thing that can occur to your (or an RV parks) electrical system. It is dangerous and may damage components in you coach. In the case of the 50A connection the normal 120V lines may drift up towards 240V. Smoke will soon follow.
Last year, during an ice storm in New Hampshire (I was smart enough to be in Florida), a tree fell on my house entrance and broke the common line. Even though I still had the ground connected, plus two ground rods driven and connected to my power panel, I lost nearly everything electrical in the house. Note this happened even though nothing was actually "on" as we were in Florida for the winter.
The voltage and current flow will not be normal without the commen connection.
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