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Topic: Ford F-53 Fuel Pump

Posted By: Jagtech on 06/11/09 06:26pm

Hello, new here...
I've been reading through the Class A forums with much interest, as I've recently moved up to a Triple E Class A from a vintage Class C.
I find numerous mentions about the lack of reliability of the fuel pumps on the mid-90's F-53 chassis, and the difficulty involved in removing the gas tank to change the pump.
So today I removed the rear bed, lifted up the fresh water tank, and cut a 12" x 12" access hole in the floor directly above the fuel pump, giving easy access if it ever needs service. Then I made a metal plate to cover the hole, complete with insulation and replaced the carpet patch. Now the pump will likely never fail but if it does, it can be changed out inside of an hour.
Guess I don't understand why the manufacturers don't provide an easy access to the pump from above?
Enjoying all the useful information in the forums! Keep it coming!
Dave


Posted By: LVJ58 on 06/11/09 07:07pm

Good move Dave, If the original pump has never been replaced, might be a good idea to get a new one and keep with you just in case.

Best of luck and wish you many fun, safe and trouble free journeys


Jim & Sherry Seward
Las Vegas, NV
2000 Residency 3790 V-10 w/tags & Banks System
2003 Suzuki XL/7 toad


Posted By: Jim@HiTek on 06/11/09 07:22pm

Considering you could just replace it with an external pump if ever necessary, I'm thinking you went to a lot of trouble. JMO


Jim@HiTek
Have shop, will travel!
Visit my travel & RV repair blog site. Subscribe for emailed updates.
Fleetwood Bounder, '94
Cummins Diesel, 190HP, 36.5' with 50HP LP boost.
Black Rock Lava Park, Nevada



Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 06/11/09 07:32pm

Jagtech wrote:

Guess I don't understand why the manufacturers don't provide an easy access to the pump from above?



Many motorhomes have basement storage over the fuel tank.......mine included.......while it's possible to cut 2 holes.......seems like it would be messy.......


I dropped the tank on my chassis and didn't find it to be any big deal.........2 floor jacks and a couple of 2x4's helped a bunch........


Eric
96 Bounder 30E-F53(460)
stock Ford intake w/K&N air filter
used Thorley headers
new Banks resonator, muffler, tail pipe and 4" polished SS exhaust tip




Posted By: NHgrizzly on 06/11/09 07:33pm

I just changed my fuel pump this weekend. We broke down on Memorial Day weekend and changing the fuel filter allowed me to get home. However I had to drop the tank to change the fuel pump. My gauge didn’t work either, so I had a couple of reasons to pull the pump. I thought of cutting a hole in the floor but there was a frame rail in the way, so I wouldn’t have been able to remove the pump. I would suggest you start off by changing the fuel filter. This will help prolong the fuel pump by reducing any unnecessary restrictions as well as being a smart thing to do. My fuel lines are "quick" disconnects - they should call them what they are - quick connects. Disconnecting requires a tool you insert which relieves the teeth inside the fuel line coupling. Changing the fuel filter will give you some practice with the tool, as well as a doing a little preventive maintenance. The only tough part of dropping the tank was getting to the bolt on the front of the gas tank. It was located between the rear axle and a protection shield. The other bolts were in clear view. Draining 50+ gallons of gas into a couple of 5 gallon cans and then into then dumping into the other vehicles took the most time.
I got the fuel pump module for $78 and the brass float for $11, both off Ebay.
The float had a crack in it and was no longer a float, it was a sinker. The one I picked up was listed for a 60's Chevy pickup but was the exact same thing that came out of mine. The local Ford dealer only sold the complete assembly for $412.
I have pictures I can attach if anyone is interested in what the fuel pump assembly and the inner guts of the old one.
I still have a slight sputter issue when applying the gas after coasting. I think I will do the Seafoam cleansing next. I can’t find any air leaks so it’s either fuel pressure regulator or clogged injectors.


Steve
1996 Damon Challenger 313
2011 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
2006 Cadillac STS-4


Posted By: Jagtech on 06/11/09 08:05pm

This is my next step, to change the filter. I need to pick up the tool, and give it a try. I'm a little reluctant to just buy a spare pump, as there seems to be more than one style of pump for the F-53? Mine's a 1997 w/460.


1998 Triple E F53 with 460 Ford
1995 Jeep Wrangler toad



Posted By: Jagtech on 06/11/09 08:13pm

Jim@HiTek wrote:

Considering you could just replace it with an external pump if ever necessary, I'm thinking you went to a lot of trouble. JMO


I read that you can do this with the older carbureted models, but will this work with FI, requiring a high pressure pump? What if the filter on the internal pump is blocked and can't draw gas through it? Would it be possible to replace the in-tank pump with a pick-up tube only, and use an external high pressure pump? (Actually, it wasn't much trouble to cut the hatch, sure gives good access to the OEM pump.)


Posted By: eisleyr on 06/12/09 10:04am

I have a 97 F53 also, I'll keep an eye on this posting for more ideas!! My pump is still OEM so I know I'm on borrowed time...


Rob & Kathy
1997 F53 Southwind 34Ft
2004 Honda CR-V
Good Sam Member since 1992


Posted By: Jim@HiTek on 06/12/09 11:18am

Jagtech wrote:

Jim@HiTek wrote:

Considering you could just replace it with an external pump if ever necessary, I'm thinking you went to a lot of trouble. JMO


I read that you can do this with the older carbureted models, but will this work with FI, requiring a high pressure pump? What if the filter on the internal pump is blocked and can't draw gas through it? Would it be possible to replace the in-tank pump with a pick-up tube only, and use an external high pressure pump? (Actually, it wasn't much trouble to cut the hatch, sure gives good access to the OEM pump.)


From what I've read here on the forum, and on other forums, they make external pumps for all applications.

What are the odds that the internal pump will be blocked? And compressed air wouldn't clear it? Sure would be worth $100 to try an external pump before going to the trouble of dropping the tank.

I haven't heard of using a pick-up tube with an external pump so if you do that, let us know how it goes.

I installed my external pump 30' away from the tank back near the engine (rear engine DP) and it still seems to be doing the job 5 years later. I think mine is a 9 PSI. Can't remember for sure though.

Good luck.


Posted By: Hikerdogs on 06/12/09 02:50pm

The "fuel pump" on a Cummins diesel is also known as a "lift pump". It provides a high volume of low pressure fuel to the mechanical "injection pump”. The injection pump boosts fuel pressure to approx, 1750 psi and distributes it to the injectors.

The fuel pump for the 6.8 liter Ford V10 provides fuel at approx. 70 psi to the injectors. There is no additional boost pump so the only pressure in the system is what has been developed by the pump.

Ford made 2 different styles of electric in tank electric fuel pumps. The earlier version used on the late model 460 cu in engines and the early 6.8 liter V10’s was a diaphragm style pimp. Unfortunately there were a considerable number of failures. The later turbine style pumps were introduced around 200-2001. They are far more dependable in that they have an extremely low failure rate.

The mechanical fuel pump for a typical carbureted engine develops 7 - 11 psi.

My point is that there are several different types and styles of “fuel pumps” available. You need to know which type and style is appropriate for your vehicle. A replacement that might work fine for one application could be a waste of money if it isn’t compatible with the fuel system on your vehicle.


Hikerdogs
2013 Winnebago Adventurer


Posted By: tahiti16 on 06/12/09 03:24pm

Jagtech wrote:

Jim@HiTek wrote:

Considering you could just replace it with an external pump if ever necessary, I'm thinking you went to a lot of trouble. JMO


I read that you can do this with the older carbureted models, but will this work with FI, requiring a high pressure pump? What if the filter on the internal pump is blocked and can't draw gas through it? Would it be possible to replace the in-tank pump with a pick-up tube only, and use an external high pressure pump? (Actually, it wasn't much trouble to cut the hatch, sure gives good access to the OEM pump.)


Depends on how it fails also, on our 90 Airex we had with a carb'd 460 the pump wasn't the actual problem! The tube broke off just belown the flange and the pump was merrily circling the tank when the key was turned on!

Other possible no joy with injected is the pump not only pumps at a high pressure but will only allow fuel through it if running, so pump downstream won't get any fuel or at least not enough to build presse for the injectors.


Ray, Cheryl & of course Miss Molly the four-legged child

2006 Dolphin 36' F53 V10 5 speed auto 2 slides 7.5 KW genset



Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 06/12/09 03:46pm

Hikerdogs wrote:


Ford made 2 different styles of electric in tank electric fuel pumps. The earlier version used on the late model 460 cu in engines and the early 6.8 liter V10’s was a diaphragm style pimp. Unfortunately there were a considerable number of failures. The later turbine style pumps were introduced around 200-2001. They are far more dependable in that they have an extremely low failure rate.



Are you sure about this?..............the pump that came out of my '96 460 was the turbine style, so was the one that came out of my buddies '95........and the pump I replaced it with was the turbine style.........the only difference was the type of rubber the turbine was made out of.........when I disassembled the pump the turbine material was soft and pliable........my guess as to what happened was over the years the rubber turbine was attacked by the gasoline making it too soft and pliable........

I think they were only using a diaphragm pump back in the carburated days.....as a turbine style is able to make more pressure required by F.I. engines.......


Posted By: Jagtech on 06/12/09 06:25pm

So should I be looking for a newer (say 2000+) style pump to replace my '97? It is definitely F.I. Would it be plug-and-play with no modification? Seems like the newer ones have much lower failure rates.


Posted By: Hikerdogs on 06/12/09 07:45pm

The turbine style pump may have been installed as early as 1995 in some model cars and trucks. There have been several posts on this forum confirming the use of the diaphram pump in the F53 chassis as late as 1998. I'm sure like every other improvement they started with the most popular models and slowly introduced it through the entire fleet.


Posted By: Jagtech on 06/12/09 08:10pm

I want to buy a new pump, and just keep it as a spare, so I don't have my original one in hand to compare. So I don't want to drop $$$ and find out "down the road" that its the wrong one, when I need it the most! I'm still not sure which pump to ask for, but I'm assuming it should be a turbine style?
Anyone know if the replacement pumps are any better than the OEM, or should I be asking for a newer version, perhaps a 2000-200?
Are they all interchangeable, assuming F.I. application?


Posted By: NHgrizzly on 06/12/09 08:16pm

Swap it with the proper model. Its 12 years old, a new one should give you another 10+, why take chances. If you have a 97 F53 chassis then it will use the same pump module I installed, which is an AIRTEX E2063M. The fuel pumps are sold as the complete assembly, a module or just the pump. The module is a plastic housing about the size of a beer can and contains a new pump, filter and gasket for the tank. Everything you need and is easily swapped out. If you are concerned about the pump then find one on the internet for cheap and change it out when you are not pressed for time.
Here is a link to my pictures including some of the fuel pump module.Motorhome
Here is a link to the Airtex catalog page.Airtex fuel pumps


Posted By: Jerry B on 06/12/09 08:22pm

96Bounder30E wrote:

Hikerdogs wrote:


Ford made 2 different styles of electric in tank electric fuel pumps. The earlier version used on the late model 460 cu in engines and the early 6.8 liter V10’s was a diaphragm style pimp. Unfortunately there were a considerable number of failures. The later turbine style pumps were introduced around 200-2001. They are far more dependable in that they have an extremely low failure rate.



Are you sure about this?..............the pump that came out of my '96 460 was the turbine style, so was the one that came out of my buddies '95........and the pump I replaced it with was the turbine style.........the only difference was the type of rubber the turbine was made out of.........when I disassembled the pump the turbine material was soft and pliable........my guess as to what happened was over the years the rubber turbine was attacked by the gasoline making it too soft and pliable........

I think they were only using a diaphragm pump back in the carburated days.....as a turbine style is able to make more pressure required by F.I. engines.......


My 96 OEM pump was a turbine pump like the replacement. This is the first I have heard of a diaphram pump installed in the gas tank.


Jerry B
Mobile Suites 36TK3


Posted By: Dutch_12078 on 06/12/09 08:51pm

NHgrizzly wrote:


Here is a link to my pictures including some of the fuel pump module.Motorhome
Here is a link to the Airtex catalog page.Airtex fuel pumps

Thanks for the great info, Steve! Looking at your pump pictures though, brought something to mind. As an emergency "get me home" tactic, I think it might make sense to tap an external pump into the generator line, rather than taking the risk that the sock filter on the pickup is plugged up, preventing the external pump from pulling through the failed pump. You'd have to be mindful of the smaller tank capacity of course, but that should be easily managed.


Dutch
1995 Coachmen Catalina 322QBXL
F53 chassis, 460 V8, TST TPMS
Quadra Bigfoot EZE Levelers
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox baseplate



Posted By: Jim@HiTek on 06/13/09 10:54am

Jagtech wrote:

I want to buy a new pump, and just keep it as a spare, so I don't have my original one in hand to compare. So I don't want to drop $$$ and find out "down the road" that its the wrong one, when I need it the most! I'm still not sure which pump to ask for, but I'm assuming it should be a turbine style?
Anyone know if the replacement pumps are any better than the OEM, or should I be asking for a newer version, perhaps a 2000-200?
Are they all interchangeable, assuming F.I. application?


I ran into a fellow RV'er who had a problem with his fuel pump a few years before, replaced it and bought a spare. Three years later he had the misfortune to need another one, had the spare installed and off he went. 500 miles later the spare failed and plugged up with it's own deteriorating rubber components.

The shop that replaced it told him that a spare should be kept in a bath of fuel or the seals will dry out, break up and ruin itself.

The lesson to me was 'don't try to carry a spare fuel pump'.


Posted By: RLS7201 on 06/13/09 12:03pm

Hikerdogs wrote:

The turbine style pump may have been installed as early as 1995 in some model cars and trucks. There have been several posts on this forum confirming the use of the diaphram pump in the F53 chassis as late as 1998. I'm sure like every other improvement they started with the most popular models and slowly introduced it through the entire fleet.


All those post confirming the use of diaphram pumps on F53s are all WRONG. It's obvious that you have no first hand information or you wouldn't be spreading this misinformation. I have been into F53 fuel tants as far back as 1991 models. There are were NO diaphram fuel pumps installed on F53 chassis. Also, there were no carburated F53s so mechanical diaphram fuel pumps were never used either.


Posted By: Jagtech on 06/13/09 12:32pm

Wow! Thanks to everyone for all the valuable information! I think I'll buy a new OEM-style Airtex pump for the F-53, and install it now via my new easy access trap door. Then I'll carry the old one as an emergency spare, keeping in mind that if I need to re-use it, it would be for "get home" only.
What a great forum!
Dave


Posted By: NHgrizzly on 06/14/09 07:53am

In response to Dutch's get me home tactic.
I guess it depends on where you tap into the line. The EFI runs @ 30+ PSI, the genny feed line is made of typical gas line and may have issues withstanding this pressure. If you run a pump close to the gas tank and directly into the high pressure line it should work. So it would be genny feed line off tank -> short section of regular gas line -> fuel filter -> inline Fuel pump -> high pressure gas line. You would have to find a power source.


Posted By: Dutch_12078 on 06/14/09 08:10am

NHgrizzly wrote:

In response to Dutch's get me home tactic.
I guess it depends on where you tap into the line. The EFI runs @ 30+ PSI, the genny feed line is made of typical gas line and may have issues withstanding this pressure. If you run a pump close to the gas tank and directly into the high pressure line it should work. So it would be genny feed line off tank -> short section of regular gas line -> fuel filter -> inline Fuel pump -> high pressure gas line. You would have to find a power source.

Exactly... The external pump would only be using the generator line on the suction side, so the pressure would not be an issue. The output could go into the existing EFI fuel line. Power could be grabbed from a number of sources, but the existing feed to the fuel pump might be the easiest to access. The fine points would depend on the particular situation, and what materials were at hand. At it's simplest, the fuel line to the generator would simply be cut and attached to the fuel pump suction side, and the existing fuel line to the engine, cut and attached to the pump out. Both with suitable clamps of course. A slightly more complex setup would 'T' into the generator line with another piece of hose, leaving the generator still operable. That assumes you have the materials on hand or available of course.

Dutch


Posted By: topflite51 on 06/14/09 08:19am

According to the info I received a few years ago from Ford, the old style pump with the high failure rate were last installed in the fall of '96 chassis. This could mean that you could quite easily have the defective style in MH built in 97 or even possibly early 98, it would depend on just how many chassis the MH manufacture had stockpiled. The pumps according to Ford were turbine style and the distinquishing feature was the old style had a 3 wire connector and the improved one had a 4 wire connector. I don't know if this info is correct or not, sure hope it is as I have a chassis that was built in Dec of 97. Take it for what it is worth. Either way, I think cutting the access hole in the floor of the MH is an excellent idea. Sure would make changing the pump out along the highway easier.

* This post was edited 06/14/09 08:50am by topflite51 *


David
Just rolling along enjoying life
w/F53 Southwind towing a 87 Samurai or 01 Grand Vitara looking to golf or fish
Simply Despicable
Any errors are a result of CRS.


Posted By: 96Bounder30E on 06/14/09 11:07am

topflite51 wrote:

According to the info I received a few years ago from Ford, the old style pump with the high failure rate were last installed in the fall of '96 chassis. This could mean that you could quite easily have the defective style in MH built in 97 or even possibly early 98, it would depend on just how many chassis the MH manufacture had stockpiled. The pumps according to Ford were turbine style and the distinquishing feature was the old style had a 3 wire connector and the improved one had a 4 wire connector. I don't know if this info is correct or not, sure hope it is as I have a chassis that was built in Dec of 97. Take it for what it is worth. Either way, I think cutting the access hole in the floor of the MH is an excellent idea. Sure would make changing the pump out along the highway easier.



Topflite's info is correct...........I'll also add that if your Chassis was built after 11-21-97 then you already have the new style pump........


Posted By: Hikerdogs on 06/14/09 12:18pm

RLS7201 wrote:

Hikerdogs wrote:

The turbine style pump may have been installed as early as 1995 in some model cars and trucks. There have been several posts on this forum confirming the use of the diaphram pump in the F53 chassis as late as 1998. I'm sure like every other improvement they started with the most popular models and slowly introduced it through the entire fleet.


All those post confirming the use of diaphram pumps on F53s are all WRONG. It's obvious that you have no first hand information or you wouldn't be spreading this misinformation. I have been into F53 fuel tants as far back as 1991 models. There are were NO diaphram fuel pumps installed on F53 chassis. Also, there were no carburated F53s so mechanical diaphram fuel pumps were never used either.


My apologies. I did a search looking for references to fuel pump replacements in Ford F53 chassis. I found at least 2 post where the OP claimed the pump they replaced in their mid and late 90's F53 chassis were diaphram style pumps. Obviously they, like me had confused the early style turbine pump as a diaphram style pump.

The mention of a mechanical fuel pump was not to infer they were used in the F53 chassis. A previous post indicated one was used on a Cummins diesel. It was intended to piont out the Cummins also had a high pressure mechanical injection pump, and that a mechanical fuel pump that only puts out 9 psi would not work on a fuel injected engine.


Posted By: tq on 06/15/09 05:07pm

I'm getting ready to change my first intank fuel pump in my 97 f53/460. My question for everyone is has anyone used the Walbro TU200($135) instead of the Airtex E2063M($170)? When I dropped the tank and pulled what I have, there is a Walbro pump with a part# that doesn't exist anymore. The mechanic wanted to put in a Motorcraft PFS48($400 ouch) and told me that the motorcraft(bosch) pump is what I want because it is new and improved, being the turbine type pump. Does anyone know if the Airtex or Walbro are turbine?? For everyone that has used a Walbro or Airtex, have you had any problems?

Thanks for any info

TQ


Posted By: Pirate on 06/16/09 07:08am

tq wrote:

I'm getting ready to change my first intank fuel pump in my 97 f53/460. My question for everyone is has anyone used the Walbro TU200($135) instead of the Airtex E2063M($170)? When I dropped the tank and pulled what I have, there is a Walbro pump with a part# that doesn't exist anymore. The mechanic wanted to put in a Motorcraft PFS48($400 ouch) and told me that the motorcraft(bosch) pump is what I want because it is new and improved, being the turbine type pump. Does anyone know if the Airtex or Walbro are turbine?? For everyone that has used a Walbro or Airtex, have you had any problems?

Thanks for any info

TQ
Put in what you want. Then when you pull the tank down again, you'll wish you used the Ford part to begin with.


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