mcgillagorilla
north pole ak
Senior Member
Joined: 01/02/2004
View Profile
 Offline
|
if you do not know where to go look in the yellow pages for weilding shops then call and ask who works on truck and trailer frames. there is quite a science to fixing them and building right. cross check the shops by going to trucking companies and see who does their repair work or check with your insurance agent.choosing the right shop is critical but the good thing is it will not be all that expensive to stiffen and gusset the frame. hope this helps.i would fix it before using on any camping trips.
bob mcgill
|
mapguy
Puget Sound
Senior Member
Joined: 09/02/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Some of the steel sizes suggested are truly overkill -get a fabricator familiar with fixing semi trailers for a strong reasonable weight solution....
Would also suggest that supports/cross members be installed between the spring and equalizer hangers. For a picture Mor Ryde (X-Factor)has a bolt in solution that can be done much cheaper by a competent fabricator/welder. This will prevent frame twist when turning.
http://www.morryde.com/php/products/aftermarket/SRE.php
|
cwit
new york
Senior Member
Joined: 07/20/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
I think your spring hangers are to long and allowing your frame to work. Did you have this problem before you changed the position on your spring hangers.
|
mapguy
Puget Sound
Senior Member
Joined: 09/02/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
cwit wrote:I think your spring hangers are to long and allowing your frame to work. Did you have this problem before you changed the position on your spring hangers.
Very normal spring hanger set-up on a Lippert chassis. Top holes are usually worthless if axle is located over springs....
Frame twisting is related to the poor/minimal crossmembers that don't counter the twisting action of turning.
That is the reason for reinforcement from spring hanger to spring hanger / equalizer hanger to equalizer hanger.
|
surffisherman
Vandenberg Village, Ca
Full Member
Joined: 07/29/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
Thanks for all the replies. I definitely have some ideas to go with here. I did not state this before but since I am very competent with tools, I am an electrician by trade, I would like to fix this myself. I am looking for a simple bolt on solution or maybe have a couple of hangers/gussets fabricated that I can bolt to the frame and attach supports too.
Mapguy,
You state that some of the suggestions are overkill but after looking at the Morryde suspension kit it just looks like 2x2 tubing hung between the frame hangers with the addition of the SRE suspension kit that gives you an additional 4 inches of travel. It looks like a very well made kit but why could I not get this same stiffness by bolting on 2x2 tubing or angle iron to the bottom of the frame in three places?
Does anyone see a problem with simply bolting on cross supports between the frame rails to stiffen and prevent flex and twisting?
2005 Pilgrim SE260-5 Bunkhouse 5th Wheel
2002 Chevy 2500HD LT 4x4 DMax/Allison CrewCab.
|
|
|
BruceStarkey
Ontario, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 05/02/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
|
I think the welding is a better idea as you don't want to be drilling holes in that bottom flange of the I beam and I think that would be necessary to duplicate any gussets added to the crossframe members, the fewer holes in an I beam the better. The other problem I see with holes is maintaining proper axle alignment. Any point of wear (bolts & their holes) may come back to haunt you later. The answer lies in increasing the amount of weld surface at the ends of those cross braces as they are being pulled apart as the bottom part of the I beam is flexing away frome trailer center line under turns. Maintaining the distance from frame bottom/suspension mounts on one side of the trailer to the other is critical to alignment.
I understand your desire to fix it yourself but I have to echo previous posters; a competent truck/trailer/frame/ shop would take one look and say: "yep, we see whats causing this and here's how we'd fix it". Going down the road with the piece of mind that the pro's have fixed it and given you an "any more problems in that area and we fix it for free" is priceless.
Today is just the tomorrow you worried about yesterday!
'04' International 4400 LoPro 310Hp/950FtLbs 10Spd Harley/RV Toter
'05' Mobile Suites 38RL3
'01' Harley Ultra in the bike barn.
|
surffisherman
Vandenberg Village, Ca
Full Member
Joined: 07/29/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
Bruce,
Ok, I hear you on drilling the i-beam and creating weak points. So let me ask this. Why not have three 2x2 sqaure tubes with plates welded on the end made up to attach to the frame hangers (above where the springs are attached). This would duplicate the design of the MOR/ryde system. The end plate on the tubing could be drilled to match the hangers and then bolted on. After that was done, the orginal cross supports could be re-attached to the i-beam.
|
mapguy
Puget Sound
Senior Member
Joined: 09/02/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
surffisherman wrote:Thanks for all the replies. I definitely have some ideas to go with here. I did not state this before but since I am very competent with tools, I am an electrician by trade, I would like to fix this myself. I am looking for a simple bolt on solution or maybe have a couple of hangers/gussets fabricated that I can bolt to the frame and attach supports too.
Mapguy,
You state that some of the suggestions are overkill but after looking at the Morryde suspension kit it just looks like 2x2 tubing hung between the frame hangers with the addition of the SRE suspension kit that gives you an additional 4 inches of travel. It looks like a very well made kit but why could I not get this same stiffness by bolting on 2x2 tubing or angle iron to the bottom of the frame in three places?
Does anyone see a problem with simply bolting on cross supports between the frame rails to stiffen and prevent flex and twisting?
The Mor Ryde system is designed to be field installable using hand tools and be shipable via UPS. Before framne damage occurs. To get the strength needed with these design parameters requires a heavy wall box tube. A good fab shop can do the same thing with much cheaper angle iron. Quality welds have no long term maintenance needs -except keeping rust at bay. Bolt on solutions need constant attention to insure system integrety. Again much of your problem is the poor crossmember design of the frame -this needs to be addressed plus consideration of the spring hanger bracing.
One issue you are not going to overcome quickly is welding skill with the stick welder. These type repairs require the work be done in cramped / convoluted positions -it takes years to get proficent at quality welding in these conditons. Plus have the experience to identify the stress directions to counter act. Without quality welding -none of the fixes will hold up.....or be light weight.
This is a job for a shop that does these type repairs regularly. Use your trade skill and earn the cash to do it right the second time and be done with it...
|
BruceStarkey
Ontario, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 05/02/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
|
surffisherman: I understand your thinking on attaching to the spring hangers. JMHO, but, I wouldn't do that.
Your dilemna starts and ends with the torque flexing outwards of the bottom of the I beam in tight turns which the welds on the ends of your cross frame ends cannot withstand. I would find a way with the use of gussets to increase the weld footprint on the ends of those cross pieces and then explore ways to provide additional strength by perhaps adding to the numbers of those crossframe pieces.
I would not rely on the spring hangers for any form of frame strength enhancement, they have already been tasked beyond any built in strength redundancy by the shackle bolts being in the bottom hole which has added to the 'lever moment' on those hangers in tight turns.
I feel the builders should have gone the extra inch by adding gussets to those hangers as well as to the frame web above the hangers to prevent distortion of the I beam.
I'm going to make a suggestion on your suspension only: find an opportunity, either on a dealer's lot or in a campground to eyeball the hangers under a trailer in the 16,000lb up category and I believe you will see what I'm referring to.
It is my belief you could very easily correct all of your suspect areas with one days welding by someone proficient with either a mig or all position stick welding if the pieces have all been cut beforehand and ready for him to use. gussets are nothing more than triangular pieces of stock in the same thickness as the base material. You are very lucky in that your belly is open and can be accessed easily for all of this.
* This post was
edited 07/30/09 04:16pm by BruceStarkey *
|
cwit
new york
Senior Member
Joined: 07/20/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
What Bruce is talking about was just done to my camper for Lippert. The gussets are welded in the shackles and the end of the gussets rest on the frame and are welded. It would be easier and cheaper to order the shackels all made from lippert and having them welded in.Believe me this is a much strounger solution.Now they can reweld your crossbrace and it should hold with no problem. They raised my camper 3 ins. with no problems. One other thing if the center shackel hole isn't the same distance from the frame you arn't helping your alignment.
|
|
|
