5thwheeleroldman
Texas
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Joined: 06/26/2007
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Ever see these kids with a pair of brass balls hanging from the rear bumper of their pickups? Sometimes I think our manhood really does hang from our trucks the way everybody defends their favorite model.
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glsurrat
Virginia
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Joined: 07/20/2006
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donn0128 wrote:So, your telling me that to refill the urea tank can cost upwards of 100 dollars at each oil change? That is about the price a dealer charges for service isn't it? OK 100 dollars divided by 7500 miles equals another 1-1/3 cents per mile.  And that is at today's price! What happens next year when the price of urea doubles or triples?
You sound like one of those guys that takes your truck to the dealer to have them add a quart of oil when it gets low?
Quote:Why is it important that Diesel Exhaust Fluid be periodically replenished and how often does it have to be replenished?
It’s necessary to replenish Diesel Exhaust Fluid periodically since it’s a consumable fluid used in proportion to the fuel (typically 1-2 % by volume). It’s expected that replenishment will be synchronized with normal maintenance service intervals, roughly every 6-12 months (e.g. oil changes).
Where can consumers purchase Diesel Exhaust Fluid and how much will it cost?
Consumers will be able to purchase the fluid through their dealership networks and will likely be able to purchase the fluid through quick lube stations and selected retail outlets. Price will be determined by the market and by the dynamics of the Urea Industry but it’s expected that price will be comparable to diesel fuel prices.
Greg
Retired member of the U.S. Navy's 1% Club.
Enjoying Champagne on the King Ranch!
'06 King Ranch F-350 Dually Diesel 4x4 Long Bed Crew Cab w/ Tow Boss
'07 Champagne Edition NuWa Hitchiker 3 axle 4 slide 37CKRD /w TrailAir all around
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Rob_NC
Walnut Cove, NC
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Joined: 04/17/2007
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The NOx adsorber is a perfectly fine technology for certain applications. Cummins chose to use it BEFORE the need to because it wanted the emissions credits it would accumulate with each sale so it wouldn't have to make their big bore engines meet the same regs when January 1, 2010 came around. Since Urea SCR requires DEF, and DEF wasn't in place 3 years ago, they went with what would work well at the time. NOx adsorbers aren't perfect since they require heavy use of EGR. EGR is detrimental to fuel economy and the engines run hotter. The catalyst must be regened the same as the DPF. With SCR, engines can use less EGR whick improves fuel economy. Less EGR also means less soot formation. This fact together with the fact that soot oxidizes at a much lower temperature in a NO2 rich environment, the dpf can be cleaned passively without the need for additonal fuel. When the engine is properly tuned, the amount of soot produced equals the amount of soot oxidized in the filter.
Currently, DEF costs less than .006 cents/mile. The typical tank size on a pickup will be approx. 8-12 gallons. Pilot, TA, and Petro all have locations with DEF already. By the time the new trucks are on dealer lots, you will be able to purchase it nearly everywhere. With 5 of 6 heavy truck OEMs using SCR, the availability will not be a problem. SCR has been used in Europe for the last 4 years. This is NOT a new technology.
As far as being biased. Yes, I am biased toward techologies that prove to be beneficial to the environment as well as the consumer.
* This post was
edited 10/11/09 05:09pm by Rob_NC *
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rvert10
Utah
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Joined: 01/05/2008
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Boy! the Government says it wants to stimulate the economy yet on the other had they're making it awlfully hard to afford
08 Dodge Mega Cab DRW,6spd auto, Exhaust break, 8'bed conversion (Best mistake I've made)
33' Teton Home Experience 3 slides, its not a trailer its a home
5500 watt generator
and a great Co-piolet
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MadMav
Colorado Springs, CO
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Joined: 03/12/2007
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Rob_NC wrote:
As far as being biased. Yes, I am biased toward techologies that prove to be beneficial to the environment as well as the consumer.
Rob, thats a great attitude, and I agree. But the attack on Dodge's DPF vs. future urea systems is simply a brand name bias since they will all meet the same strict standards.
Mav
'08 Dodge 3500 SLT Mega Cab Dually, 6.7l/6 speed.
'08 Winners Circle 36SRV-H5
Pair of '09 Polaris Sportsman 550 XP's
'05 Polaris Trail Boss 330
'03 Yamaha TTR125LR
1 wife, 2 kids, 3 dogs, 2 cats
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donn0128
Pronounced Ore-gun
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Joined: 04/21/2005
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glsurrat wrote:donn0128 wrote:So, your telling me that to refill the urea tank can cost upwards of 100 dollars at each oil change? That is about the price a dealer charges for service isn't it? OK 100 dollars divided by 7500 miles equals another 1-1/3 cents per mile. And that is at today's price! What happens next year when the price of urea doubles or triples?
You sound like one of those guys that takes your truck to the dealer to have them add a quart of oil when it gets low?
Where did you get that from? I simply stated what I have seen advertised locally for diesel service around town.
Donn
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Rob_NC
Walnut Cove, NC
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Joined: 04/17/2007
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MadMav wrote:Rob_NC wrote:
As far as being biased. Yes, I am biased toward techologies that prove to be beneficial to the environment as well as the consumer.
Rob, thats a great attitude, and I agree. But the attack on Dodge's DPF vs. future urea systems is simply a brand name bias since they will all meet the same strict standards.
Mav
I only attacked the Dodge system because it was called "superior" by someone else. Even though it does accomplish the same thing as a SCR system, I'd hardly call it "superior" due to it's drawbacks. Hopefully, in due time, I will be able to bash SCR systems when a better technology emerges. Right now, it looks like DME or Bio DME is on the forefront.
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MadMav
Colorado Springs, CO
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I do believe it was called "superior" in that it was released 3 years prior to the other systems. And it is truely "superior" in the fact that it produces less dirty emmisions than GM or Ford up to 2010. But I suspect you are right, the SCR systems will have their bugs too.
Mav
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Joined: 11/18/2006
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I wonder how long before Hypertech or someone else has a hack to eliminate the need for filling the DEF tank...
My guess: within a month after getting their hands on a test truck. They can sell them alongside their "Kalifornia smog check" tunes. 
(I love my all-mechanical Cummins.)
John
1984 Ford B-700 school bus conversion, Thomas body
A bunch of other vehicles
3 nutty cats (Maya, Vierna, Briza)
One lazy dog (Marmaduke)
One wife (Liz)
"A wasted youth is better by far than a wise and productive old age"
-Jim Steinman
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mtlogger
Montana/Guatemala
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Joined: 05/26/2008
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I just love it when you guys argue about nothing. Ya see I only buy old mechanical engines and the trucks that haul for a living. I ain't buying new untested anything - because I don't wanna be the guinea pig.
Someone said earlier they don't want an MB engine. Got news fer you - MB has the rights for Rudolph Diesel engine since 1893! And, their ain't nothin' wrong with an MB engine - I got two of them and they get great mileage - far better for heavy hauling - with less HP and more torque. Now I've driven kitty Kats, Cummins, IH and Ford trucks most my life but I always go back to the simpler systems. No turbos either. Don't need 'em, don't want 'em.
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