Capt Skup wrote: I had just the opposite experience as to purchase price of minivans when we were shopping.....We looked at three brands of similiary equipped vans. Toyota Sienna, Chrysler Town and Country, and the Honda Odessey. Of the three, the greatest discount off of MSRP I got was with the Honda. The Town and Country was actually almost $10,000 more, the Toyota about $5,000 more. We got the Honda in EX-L trim for under $28,000 very well equipped. A far superior vehicle for $10,000 less, it was a no brainer.
See, the problem there is, you selected the Chrysler Town & Country model in your comparison, which is nothing but a Grand Caravan with a bunch of bling-bling added to it, and a much higher price tag. Add in a Grand Caravan model, your price comparison would have looked much different.
Back in 2006, we picked up our basically new Grand Caravan for right at $16k. Nissan dealer would not BUDGE from the $28K they wanted for their Odyssey. Toyota dealer was 'bout the same on their Sienna.
Yeah, if I was willing to spend 27-28k like you did, I would have gone with the Odyssey or Sienna, too. However, our Grand Caravan has worked great for us, as has the much lower bank note.
Resale value? Baaah. By the time I trade in our vehicles, they're worth very little regardless what brand it is.
Actual data point: 2003 Honda Odyssey with 137,000 miles that has towed a 2,700# popup approximately 15,000 of those miles.
All in all, it's been slightly above average for quality and durability. Issues: timing belt tensioner recall, transmission recall (not a failure), EGR valve twice, EGR passages clogged once (135k), failed power window twice, broken HVAC resistor, broken slider door handle, 3 sets of fron brake pads, 2 rears, irritating timing belt/tensioner/water pump scheduled maintenance not required in most modern vehicles ($850).
On the plus side, I've been able to do most of the repairs myself due to good design for maintenance. It has been a very low cost vehicle to maintain (other than that da#% timing belt). Of note, the engine STILL doesn't use a drop of oil in 7,000 mile changes (Mobil1), power is still good and I still get 25mpg in moderate load freeway driving and about 19 around the 'burbs. Amazingly, I'm still on all 4 factory brake rotors, but I never turn 'em (velvet smooth).
The downside is those darn trannies. I figure I'm on borrowed time and a reman Honda unit runs about $4,500 installed (with required new PCM). That'll be tough call on a van that old.
I never said I based my decisions from CR...but think about this...those surveys are to help determine customer satisfaction not reliability. ...
As for reliability, they use dealer info, manufacture info, and other records.
This was not the case last I checked. Last time I looked at CR, they based their data entirely on user surveys. Did you see this some place where I can check it for myself?
It doesn't take a statistics phd to figure out that a population of people who has been told for 30 years that Honda and Toyota the best are going to report back that Honda and Toyota are the best!
If someone thinks there going to get $18,900 on a 2005 Honda w/60 k, I thing many dealers will sell you all you can handle!!!
Let me make this as clear as I can. I'm a dealer --- I assume you are not. I have access to this information --- you do not. Manheim is the largest remarketer of used vehicles in the US. The Atlanta facility alone sells nearly 3,000 vehicles a week, not to mention the hundreds of other Manheim facilities across the country. I am providing FACTS from ACTUAL RECENT AUCTION RESULTS, not merely a pie-in-the-sky statement such as yours. I can back up each figure I quoted. Yes, my friend, I DO know what I'm talking about.
Well, I stand corrected, I did some research on CarsDirect and other sources and will concede, they have a much higher resale value. Our area they are not that popular and bring somewhat less. Arizona and Michigan dealer offered me $9000 on my 04 Sienna LE, extras, w/60,000, excellent condition. I paid sticker to get it, where-as I could (if memory serves) have gotten the T/C for $4500 less, plus 6% sales tax.
Normally the trade-in-factor, adjust accordingly, additional fiance charges, insurance, sales tax (for states who have it) and license fees. IMO will not make it as lucrative as the FULL resale value would indicate.
I had 125,000 miles on Caravan, had some issues but not NEAR the problems/expense I have with this Sienna. Plus the Caravan handled SO MUCH better in hi-speed condtions, interstates and such.
* This post was
edited 10/15/09 10:58am by Comshaw *
Capt Skup wrote: I had just the opposite experience as to purchase price of minivans when we were shopping. I use the dealers internet sales associates when dealing price, which has resulted in substantial savings. We looked at three brands of similiary equipped vans. Toyota Sienna, Chrysler Town and Country, and the Honda Odessey. Of the three, the greatest discount off of MSRP I got was with the Honda. The Town and Country was actually almost $10,000 more, the Toyota about $5,000 more. We got the Honda in EX-L trim for under $28,000 very well equipped. A far superior vehicle for $10,000 less, it was a no brainer. I could probably resell it today and recoup close to 80+% of my purchase price, something that could never be said of a Chrysler product.
Not to question your statement above but apparently the Dealers in your area don't want to negotiate on T/C, cause that would put the T/C at $38,000. IMO normally with leather and most frills(apples to apples) I can deal T/C about 3/4,000 less than Toyota/Honda, without employee discounts (which I usually am able to acquire). This is based on prices here in Michigan and Arizona.
I never said I based my decisions from CR...but think about this...those surveys are to help determine customer satisfaction not reliability. ...
As for reliability, they use dealer info, manufacture info, and other records.
This was not the case last I checked. Last time I looked at CR, they based their data entirely on user surveys. Did you see this some place where I can check it for myself?
It doesn't take a statistics phd to figure out that a population of people who has been told for 30 years that Honda and Toyota the best are going to report back that Honda and Toyota are the best!
That would be virtually impossible...If you look at the reliability charts in the mag, you can see they list up to 10 years of data on thinks like brakes, trannny, engine, paint, electrical, cooling system etc...how could they possibly take that data from a survey?
As for where it comes from, check the Annual Report on the site
I am working remotely today, I will try and dig it up for you later today
I never said I based my decisions from CR...but think about this...those surveys are to help determine customer satisfaction not reliability. ...
As for reliability, they use dealer info, manufacture info, and other records.
This was not the case last I checked. Last time I looked at CR, they based their data entirely on user surveys. Did you see this some place where I can check it for myself?
It doesn't take a statistics phd to figure out that a population of people who has been told for 30 years that Honda and Toyota the best are going to report back that Honda and Toyota are the best!
That would be virtually impossible...If you look at the reliability charts in the mag, you can see they list up to 10 years of data on thinks like brakes, trannny, engine, paint, electrical, cooling system etc...how could they possibly take that data from a survey?
As for where it comes from, check the Annual Report on the site
I am working remotely today, I will try and dig it up for you later today
IIRC the data is collected via subscriber surveys. These are done yearly and no cumulative so they are only carrying over 9 years of data, not surveying 10 years worth of owners every year. If you look at their ratings annually the old ratings never change. If it was a 2004 model and an area was judged marginal, you will see that area still marginal for the 2004 model in 2009. However it may have gotten a better rating post 2004 depending on if the manufacturer made changes or they got a more accepting batch of reviewers.
All the Chrysler/Dodge haters along with those who actual drive them will be happy to know that 2011 pilot Dodge/Chrysler minivans are currently being produced. They feature upgraded interiors with higher quality materials (Daimler when they owned Chrysler refused to spend any money on quality interiors among other things...engines????). Also the new engines are also being installed in some of the pilots which should satisfy those who do not drive Chrysler/Dodge products, but like to criticize them anyway. These engines are state of the art and hopefully will provide high quality drivetrains for the vans. Hope everyone has a good night. Greg
Capt Skup wrote: Survey, as the leader of the Chrysler cheering section, isn't it your duty to set the example. To show where your faith and heart truely is, the only way is to head straight to your nearest Chrysler dealer and make a purchase. Drive away in one of them shiney new vehicles, Chrysler could sure use the help. Keep the low mileage '95 for running errands to Home Depot.
BTW, all my vehicles(Fords, Toyotas, Hondas) were built in either the US of A or Canada. The Odyssey has one of the highest percentage content of Made in America parts than just about any other vehicle.
Capt... We are on our second mini-van because of kids and kids friends. Our 2001 caused us zero problems and we traded it in for a 2008. 22,000 miles and zero problems again (knock on wood) They practically gave it to us. sticker was 34,700 and we got it for a little over 23,000.
Its a Town and country loaded. The kids love the TV and TV stations. We also got a seven year bumper to bumper and 7 years of oil changes thrown in. Dont forget about the lifetime powertrain warrenty.
With the kids going to private schools (our choice) we could not swing 30 grand. I really like the new vans (I hope I dont have to eat crow years down the road)
FWIW
Robert
06 Ram CTD 2500HD Megacab Flame Red
2005 298 BHS Jayco Eagle TT
Hensley Arrow , Prodigy
turninghawk wrote: Can't understand why anybody would buy a Caravan when for the same money they could buy a Honda Odyssey. No contest.
Obviously you haven`t compared the 2 side by side! I`ve driven the Odd-yssey. that thing is very unstable feeling, no power, and drives like a piece of junk! the Caravan/T&C on the other hand, handle like a car, have plenty of power with either the 3.8 or 4.0 and are very solid vans. I will agree that they missed the mark on the styling. supposedly everyone got tired of the jellybean look (read aerodynamic) and went with the box look (ala Honda, Toyota, Nissan). BTW the newer vans are what you get when you let German styling take over! just like Chryslers LX cars just about everything other than the engines and sheetmetal are Benz! funny how people rave about German engineered cars and then put down a 300. practically the same car!
As far as longevity goes, my 97 Voyager has 180k mi. and I would take it on a cross country trip without hesitating. sure I`ve had to do some maint. and 1 trans, but thats to be expected.
The Chrysler 300 is no more German than Taco Bell!!
Um.....you do know that the LX cars have Benz front and rear suspensions, the transmission is Benz and many various other systems are Benz. Mercedes Benz wrapped in American sheetmetal. goodlooking sheetmetal too!
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Dog Shadow
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