I have been hanging around quite a while now, reading, learning, etc. But, now it may be time for the rubber to hit the road, so to speak, so I wanted to post my specific situation and air my uncertainties for those with a wealth of experience to weigh in on:
We are a family of 4 (kids are 4 and 7) and have been tent campers for several years, but are starting to get serious about getting a travel trailer for a bit more "comfort", etc. while we are out there roughing it. We have visited several dealers in the area just to narrow down our floorplan preferences and here is what we have settled on: bunk beds, slide out for a bit more room inside, and length of approximately 25 feet. So, this is our ideal situation but this past weekend we came across the following trailer:
Outback (Keystone) 30QBHS. It has quad bunks in the back which is clearly more than we need, but I figure I can use the "extra" beds for storage and maybe the kids can bring friends along some day so the extra bunks actually seem to be a positive. It has a nice slideout. The coach itself is 30' long, but full length with tongue is 33.3'. The catch is that it is a 2008 model (never sold by the dealer) and seems to have a price almost too good to pass up which is why we are interested.
Here are my concerns:
1. Is it too long to camp pretty much wherever we want? We have goals of camping in several national parks over the next several years and I don't want to be turned away because we are too long. I have seen some threads on this topic and I see a lot of reference to 30 foot maximum length. My question -- are they talking coach length (this Outback is 30 feet of coach) or bumper to the tip of the tongue??
2. Is there something "wrong" with this particular model since it is still on the dealer's lot after a few years? This particular dealer does seem to have a lot of inventory so maybe their purchasing is a bit overdone, I don't know. Are there any folks out there that can comment on the quality of the Keystone Outback brand? To our eyes it seems to be built well and is quite nice inside, etc.
3. Can I tow it? I think I can, but being a tent camper my whole life causes some uncertainty in my mind. In anticipation of buying a TT, we recently bought a 2007 Toyota Tundra with the 5.7 V8 engine and tow package. Based on my understanding of the towing math, I believe I should be ok towing a trailer weighing up to approximately 8,900 pounds (4 passengers in the TV + some gear). The GVW of the Outback TT is 7,550 and I would typically not expect to pack it to the gills.
Thanks for reading and I look forward to any guidance from those more experienced than I.
We are on our second bunkhouse now still camping with big teenagers who were just weeks old when be began RV camping with them. I've loved having a hard side RV because we use ours year around, it's not just a summer thing but really a way of life for us.
I try never to slam other makes of RV's, and I've had my share of heart breaks along the way with things going wrong with them. There is good and bad in everymake, it only takes one tiny leak in a well made trailer to incure lots of damage that only shows up after years later.
So if the trailer you are looking at fits your needs and has no obvious reasons for being a hold over from 2 years ago, you may have found yourself a real bargain.
Your truck is a wonderful tow unit, but it's not up to the task of what you are going to ask it to do. 30 feet of trailer is big. I know, I pull one too. It's not just the issue of power, it's so much more. It's the size of the ring gear, wheels bearings, breaks, suspension Ect., that make a tow rig comfortable or marginal. That size trailer demands a 3/4 ton or more regardless if it's a light weight.
I read so many times people think they know what their rig weighs, but I know I could win a lot of bets if people truthfully weighed their trailers heading out on a trip fully loaded with fluids, clothes, food, toys,.... the list goes on. In a 30 foot trailer there is tons of storage space and it's so easy to add 2000lbs or more to the weight of a trailer. I know, I have and I admit it, I travel heavy with mine, right at 10,000lbs, but both my tow rigs were made for pulling.
When we stepped up from our 27 foot to the 30 foot and then added a 5 foot bike rack to the back of that we noticed some of the older State Parks and many of the National Parks were now questionable. National Parks weren't really an issue, they don't usually have hookups and I prefer to do most my camping with hookups.
My advice, buy as much trailer as you can afford, you'll never regret the extra space, but be realistic about what is safe to tow. I wish you lived close, I'd let you test drive my trailer loaded just so you could see how it feels to drag that kind of weight around.
All the best with your purchase, and I do hope you get a trailer that makes you and the family happy. Hans
Hans & Family
98 3/4 4X4 7.4 Suburban "Pullrite"
96 3/4 4X4 6.5 Extended Cab Silverado
02 Wilcat Bunkhouse www.gyswyt.com
It might be too long for some places. At least it would be for many state and county parks in CA. Check for length restrictions in at least your favorite five places.
I cannot speak for Keystone Outback but my Keystone Springdale has been great.
Get a good anti-sway hitch and you are good to go IMO.
In my opinon, 30' is a bit much for a Tundra. I have a similar truck. Mine is a Nissan 5.6. I am towing a 27' Komfort that is rated at 7900lbs. maximum. It handles it fine but the Titan has a towing capacity of 9400lbs. As far as access to campsites, you might have some smaller or older parks that will not let you in. I know the temptation when the "price is right" but, think it over carefully. You want a rig that is fun to travel in. ...RVH
27' Komfort 27T. 2005 Nissan Titan Crew Cab.
Just me and the wife.
RETIRED : Operating/Stationary Engineer
IUOE Local 501 Los Angeles,Ca.
It might be a good idea to check the websites of the campgrounds you think you may want to visit. The site they gave us in Yellowstone for the rig in my sig was a curved pull through but it wouldn't fit. I got in far enough but had to back out with inches to spare all around..... I would never try to pull a 30' trailer with anything less than a HD 3/4 ton.
Support the Country you live in or live in the Country you support
2003 Sierra SP 26'Toy Hauler
1997 F-350, PSD, 4X4, red Crew Cab, long bed.
2007 Arctic Cat Prowler, Arctic Cat 500
There's no magic length that works everywhere. Many parks have a variety of sites; some suitable for very short RVs while some are good for 40' DP's. Then, there is the fact that some sites are nicer than others, although that is a bit dependent on personal taste. None the less, the shorter the TT, the easier it will be to find a site that's both large enough and that you like. FWIW, we've owned three 30' long TTs and one 34' plus a 37' diesel pusher. We prefer public parks over private RV parks and had frequent issues with the 34' TT and only occasional issues with the 30-footers.
As for your Tundra . . .
The primary shortcoming of any 1/2-ton truck pulling a TT is it's carrying capacity and limited ability to deal with the tongue weight of a loaded TT. A 9,000# trailer will have a MINIMUM tongue weight of 1,080# which is more than many 1/2-ton trucks are rated for. We prefer a 15% tongue weight which would be 1,350#; well over your rated capacity.
The second shortcoming of the 1/2-ton truck is the relatively car-like suspension and P-series tires. Great for when you're using the truck as a car, which is what they're mostly used for, but the softness shows up when fully loaded and the truck doesn't handle nearly as well as a 3/4-ton carrying the same load.
Bottom line? Some people do it and swear it's fine. We've got an F150 SuperCrew 5.4L towing package with 3.73 gears--a typical 1/2-ton set up for towing--and there's no way we'd tow our trailer with it. OTOH, our 2500HD tows it with grace and comfort.
Steve & C. J.
"Gracie" the Rough Collie & "Bo'sun" the Bichon Frise
2009 Arctic Fox 24-5N
2007 Ford F350 4X4 Crewcab LB 11.5K GVWR
PullRite 18K SuperGlide
On your question about length, you go by the total length, Hitch coupler to bumper, not the length of the box. So your TT would be considered a 33 footer. I`m pulling a 30 footer with a 1/2 ton and I`m about maxed out. Some day I will get a beefier TV but for now this will have to do. Welcome and good luck.
I tow a 32 ft TT with the same truck with no problems. My TT is about 8000 lbs loaded. The towing capacity of your TV is 10600 so I think you are ok with your proposed rig. I use an Equalizer WD hitch and have no sway problems. Semis blowing by me on the freeway don't bother me at all. I am careful not to overload the bed of my truck as the GAWR Rear is 4100.
Good luck with your decision and happy camping.
Just DH & DW
2007 Toyota Tundra Dbl Cab
2008 Sunset Creek 279RB, Prodigy Brake Control, Equalizer Hitch
Substract 1000 lbs from you trucks max towing limit. Let that amount be your total maxed out limit on your camper. Try not to max out your camper weight,ie take only what you will need for the trip, and you should be fine. Remember, unless you are dry camping, most camp grounds are near shopping areas for food, gas, and clothing as well as eating out. Travel as light as possible.
Happy Camping
2007 Chev. Silverado CrewCab 4x4
6.0L Vortex Max
3.73 Rear Axle Ratio
Prodigy Brake Control
Equalizer Hitch
Champion 4000/3500 30A RV Gen.
Garmin 7200 GPS
2008 31E Jayco Feather LGT
UVW6225 GVW7850
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