Diana and I are newbies, well want to be fulltimes in the next 6 months. We owned a class C several years ago, but are now looking at a Class A. We have narrowed our search to Newmar and Tiffin, 38-40 ft coaches and are quite specific about what we are looking for.
The questions I have concerns purchasing a used coach via the Internet and I am sure some of you have.
1. Is the price negotiated before seeing, driving, having the RV inspected?
2. Any recommendations to inspection services? Are they worth the $$$ and what do they cost?
3. Is the deposit placed in an escrow account?
4. Best States for home of record to avoid sales tax or income tax?
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1. Is the price negotiated before seeing, driving, having the RV inspected?
Not in most cases. Even though some sellers may push for a confirmation of price, no wise buyer, in my opinion, would close a deal without seeing the goods - especially with something having multiple components as an RV does.
2. Any recommendations to inspection services? Are they worth the $$$ and what do they cost?
While other members are sure to be able to give you specific recommendations in your area, I would look toward having the coach inspected by master certified RV technicians, preferably at RV dealers.
3. Is the deposit placed in an escrow account?
Be very careful here, Steve. Many scams are afoot involving deposits lost due to unethical sellers and some of those scams involve RV's for sale on the internet. In this Forum recently were a number of posts relating stories of those scams. I would suggest trying to avoid the deposit all together if possible. IMHO (in my humble opinion), deposits are not always as necessary as the seller may imply.
4. Best States for home of record to avoid sales tax or income tax?
We chose to "suck it up" and pay Florida's sales tax because we are (and wish to remain} Florida residents.
I will, however, offer you this one caveat: Avoid the formation of an LLC in order to avoid sales tax and/or the annual personal property tax (PPT) that many states levy on these types of vehicles.
Many RV'ers do this so that they can buy the RV without these taxes in one state and garage it in another, usually in a state which levies no such taxes or has lower rates than the first.
Montana is a popular state for the formation of these types of LLC's and many companies in Montana have been formed just to create these LLC's.
Although a number of my fellow Forum members will disagree with me on this point (as many have in the past), I say this as a retired CPA after 30+ years in private practice and I assure you that many states are aware of this practice and have begun aggressively pursuing this lost revenue.
One of them, California, has formed a special task force {called C.H.E.A.T.S.} just for this purpose.
Recovery of this lost revenue on the federal level is also underway. The IRS has recently been declaring many of these LLC's as being "void of economic substance", a position which has been upheld in some federal districts.
Many of my fellow Forum members will tell you that the IRS has nothing to do with this because its a state affair.
What they don't understand, however, is that if the IRS prevails (as it has in many districts), the LLC is immediately and retroactively dissolved.
Once the LLC is dead, the tax shelter will also die if the LLC's federal tax status is corporate (as opposed to partnership or sole proprietorship).
Once the corporate tax shelter disappears, the personal income tax prevails. Because personal income tax rates are generally higher than corporate income tax rates, taxes may be due and if the state in question has a personal income tax (which most, like Indiana do), state income taxes will also due.
Oh, and don't forget the penalties and interest, which will be retroactively appled just like the tax will be.
An hour or so of internet research will confirm all of this, Steve, and would be well worth your time if any of this piques your interest.
Regardless of what you decide, I welcome you to the Forum and look forward to the opportunity to help in any way I can.
Happy travels!
Traveling our country and seeing the sights, enjoying fun-filled days and campfire nights See our travel pics
The rig: 2006 SportsCoach Cross Country SE
The toad: 2006 Saturn Vue
The Captain: Skip
The Co-Captain: Norine
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We bought our RV on-line. It was through e-bay, though we were the "rebound" buyer. (the person who won the original bid, decided to change his mind, so the seller contacted me)
We were about 12 hours away, so only had the pictures to view. We liked what we saw, and only offered a $100 deposit. We were in contact with the owner, and had several e-mails and phone calls about various pieces of equipment and options in the RV. We felt good about the sale.
We had to bring a "Certified" check when we bought the RV, and while we could have brought it down to a local dealer for an inspection, I am a Chief Engineer on a tug, and have worked on vehicles most of my life, so felt comfortable doing the inspection myself....but also agree with Skip, that if you want to get it inspected (good idea) that you make sure that the Inspector is a Master Certified RV Tech. After all, if you were going for surgery, would you want a General Practice MD, or a Board Certified Surgeon? Same difference!
I would recommend having someone with you, to video tape the walk around....and how things are working. 1.) It gives you a record of how to operate things that you may not be familiar with....you're bound to forget! 2.) If there is a problem, you have it documented.
Can't speak for the LLC issure, though the guy we bought from had the RV registered in Montana (we bought in Tennessee), and he swore by it, but I agree with Skip.....if it sounds too good to be true....well, you know the rest!
I was able to drop my taxes a bit, by showing the local tax people additional RV value statements (NADA) which saved me about $200/year.
One final note. Another hassle is the license plates. You can't get a "home" tag, because you don't have the registration until you actually buy the RV. We couldn't get a Temp. Tag in Tennessee (I forget the exact reason)...so we were lucky, the seller let us use his tag, which I mailed back to him as soon as I got home. Discuss this with the seller...see what your options are. Now, this may not be a problem, if you are in the same state, or if the seller's state does give Temp. Plates.
Good Luck
Happy Camping
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PapPappy wrote: I would recommend having someone with you, to video tape the walk around....and how things are working. 1.) It gives you a record of how to operate things that you may not be familiar with....you're bound to forget! 2.) If there is a problem, you have it documented.
This is a VERY good idea.
When we got our first RV, videotaping helped us when we forgot some stuff and it also reminded us of stuff that we didn't even know we forgot!
I would like to throw in a few thoughts...don't like see people getting taken advantage of - especially with the bucks your spending.
Inasmuch as A's have come down seriously because of the economy, a lot of people who own A's are selling due to job loss, etc., this seems the time for the "slip and slide" seller. Have you considered checking out some of the dealers within say 200 miles? I say this only because your in Indiania and that is the hub for it all. I'd think you could see, walk-around, even ride in A that could fill your bill. Really glad you joined the Forum, good luck in your quest - keep us in the loop as to the outcome, Ron
I don't understand why anyone would buy sight unseen. You can do all the steps listed above to make sure it is what you want before going to see it. But there is no reason to commit to buy without going out to see it. If you are willing to plunk down all that money, why aren't you willing to travel to see it? IMHO you are asking for trouble if you send any money before inspecting the vehicle yourself.
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform."
Mark Twain
I have purchased and sold boats through the Internet without to much hassle. One guy hired a yacht surveyor to survey my 14' "yacht" - it paid for itself in that it found issues with the transom I was not even aware of. I arranged a seller to take a boat to a local marina and have them inspect it and swap the oil - seller got a free oil change and I had piece of mind.
I am now looking at a C. I think his price is high and will present an offer contingent on inspection before traveling hours to see it. Even if it is a range. If you are thinking LOW BALL and he is thinking FIRM it is good to find that out ahead of time. With the boat I made it clear that it was a conditional offer, but I was not looking to nickel and dime him. If anything major was found I would walk, any little "personality" items would be ok. Saying ahead of time that you will walk away if you find water damage or structural issues helps you be strong once you get there.
When I go, I know I will be excited and distracted. So the video idea is good. But bring a LIST so nothing is forgotten. There are several great ones available on this site.
I've asked for and provided nominal deposits directly to the seller, but first do a "back ground check" by using various white pages sites to see if there is in fact a guy by that name living at that address. Google is amazing with this.
Thank you for your input. It was extremely helpful. I actually took your advise and went back to some local RV dealers and think we may have found just what we are looking for.
Thank you for all your opinions. We made an offer today on a 2005 Newmar 39 ft Kountry Star, contingent on selling our house. So we will see where this goes.
Actually, everything seems to be coming together like we planned.
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