928gt wrote: I don't understand why the trend is to make Toy Haulers higher and higher off the ground. I have watched a lot of people trying to load their toys in some of these and I just shake my head. Some I have watched in the rain literally have to put them in 4WD to get them up those steep ramps into the TH. Very odd trend for a vehicle supposedly designed to haul Toys!! Since I haul a very low sport car in mine on occasion it was important for me to get a "low rider" like my WW LE. An added bonus is better stability on the road, especially in wind or the very curvy roads I frequent.
I fully understand the 5% or so that take their THs what you call off-road that do axle flips etc when they think they need more clearance. In reality most are done that way to level them out for their lifted trucks or because they think it looks cool more so than for actual clearance "off-road". In my origial post I was talking about the other 95% in the real world that never take their THs off of maintained roads (paved or gravel), there is no good reason they should be designed that high.
It was just my opinion, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. BUT, the original posters issue is a prime example of what I was talking about and I see it all the time everytime I go somewhere.
I hope I don't "ruffle your feathers" but where you are located has a lot to do with your narrow view of toyhauler design.
First and foremost in design is the fact that toyhaulers are designed to be cheap and as such they utilize existing RV trailer industry parts, namely straight axles. Straight axles preclude a lower floor. Secondly, the frame strength needed requires a higher cross section frame than a normal RV trailer, either 6, 7, or as much as 10 inches in height. This also precludes a lower floor. Some TH come with a dovetail floor in the rear to help mitigate ramp breakover but the demand for this feature is not prevalent. And probably 75% of THs would drag the rear end on the ground somewhere along their journey if not for the extra height. I don't know anyone that has raised their trailer to "be cool". The raise was necessary for either truck or ground clearance. (My trailer is stock height)
The next big reason for their design is marketing. The overwhelming majority of TH sales are to the offroad market here in the west. Offroad vehicles(dirt bikes, quads, dune buggies, Rhino type utility vehicles.) are high clearance vehicles so TH loading is not an issue. These vehicles are also not street legal so require transport to use destination. A coming part of the TH market are people with on road bikes, harleys and so on but to design models for this market would require increases in price and design changes or "specialty models" if you will. RV companies are not equipped for these and market demographics (or demand not high enough)don't justify the investments for special models.
For those that require a lower floor and higher vehicle weight capacity there are companies that manufacture car carrying trailers with living quarters but they are significantly more expensive then cheap technology toyhaulers. They utilize more expensive u shaped axles and dovetail rear sections to accommodate show cars, race cars and the like. Floor design in these trailers is more expensive to satisfy strength and narrow cross section requirements.
Hope this helps with your understanding of TH design
928gt, I've read the above posts over several times and don't know where you are coming from?? I don't see where this gentleman flipped his springs or raised his TH, he was just having a problem loading his Goldwing. The other posts were much more informative.
Shep
shepcal wrote: 928gt, I've read the above posts over several times and don't know where you are coming from?? I don't see where this gentleman flipped his springs or raised his TH, he was just having a problem loading his Goldwing. The other posts were much more informative.
Shep
Hi Shep,
You should read them again, I never did say or imply the OP did any if this (flipping/raising). I also gave the OP some ideas to help with the issue they were having, which I hope was at least a little informative and one of many possible solutions for their issue.
The topic simply reminded me of what I had noticed over the past few years of Toy Hauler ramps getting steeper and steeper due to the current design trends by the manufacturers. This was just an observation and opinion posted within the context of the conversation, nothing more.
AND, yes it is very amusing watching some people trying to load their toys in the some of these hijacker toyhaulers I see more and more on the market. BUT, guess what.. you can always bet that as I am chuckling at them trying to get them in there I am always the first one walking over to give them a hand, even in the pouring rain.
No worries about ruffling my feathers, forums like this are a place to share experiences, information, and opinions. There is nothing that can be typed here that will ruffle my feathers. It is afterall a "discussion forum".
olddesertrider wrote:
but where you are located has a lot to do with your narrow view of toyhauler design.
That is where you are wrong and statements like that are the epitome of a "narrow view". My current location (you have no clue where I have lived or used Toy Haulers and/or loaded toys throughout my life), has nothing to do with my views, be they narrow in your opinion or not. The west coast doesn't have any more special requirements for loading, towing or getting to destinations (civilized or remote) then most areas of the US or the world, if you think that you really should get out of the area a little more. The posts like yours actually show the opposite, somehow a few people from the west coast that think it has special requirements for Toy Haulers and this shows a much more narrow view. When I think of requirements or designs they are more out of the box than just in one little sand box on the west coast.
olddesertrider wrote: Hope this helps with your understanding of TH design
Thanks, but I don't need any help with understanding TH design, my in depth understanding of car hauler design, TH design, trailer design in general, plus decades of loading/towing toys/vehicles of all types in many varied environments is what prompted my observation.
You can say whatever you like, but when a Toy Hauler is designed to have a ramp at pretty much a 45 degree angle when level I think it is not smart, no matter what you are loading into it. In my opinion it is a poor design and it doesn't matter which coast, what state or even what country it is used in.
As with anything there is a happy medium. It is a no brainer that a tradional low car hauler is basically not appropriate for anything but smooth paved relatively flat roads. However, I do find it odd that the longest, best known, most successful (and THE most popular on the west coast) Toy Hauler company that was copied by all others has (well had) trived for literally decades with a design that is much lower than current trends and even some of their own later designs. It wasn't until the 2007 model year did WW really start making taller THs with steeper ramps starting with the FTL and CL and then later with the LEDs, and other garage models. Had they really gotten such a simple part of the design so wrong for almost 20 years??? Sure they did axle flips for people as an option, but whether most will admit it or not, the majority did it because it was "cool". No different from all the lifted trucks you see everywhere, sure a scant few really do need and use the extra ground clearance, but that is a small minority.
As you stated you didn't know anyone that said they just did it for looks and I truly beleive you. The problem is most will never admit it, even to themselves.
BTW, I can say this as former liftoholic myself :-), but experiance has taught me better. For the most part all most ever accomplish with lifting their trucks and or trailers is added stress on suspension components resulting it accelerated wear/failures and greatly reduced stability.
To the OP, I apologize that my orignal simple little comment caused such a flare of posts taking your thread off topic. I will refrain further comment in this thread and my sincere wishes for a solution to the loading problem you are having, trust me you are not alone.
* This post was
edited 11/08/09 09:23pm by 928gt *
i have a chopper, bout 4 1/4in off the ground. i put blocks under the landing t gear to rise the trailer hi up front. also the kids and i race motorcross and some of the places we go in and outa i would`nt want nottin lower. scary thought.the dirt bikes i ride up. chopper push up ( foot clutch-hand shift)
shepcal wrote: 928gt, I've read the above posts over several times and don't know where you are coming from?? I don't see where this gentleman flipped his springs or raised his TH, he was just having a problem loading his Goldwing. The other posts were much more informative.
Shep
Hi Shep,
You should read them again, I never did say or imply the OP did any if this (flipping/raising). I also gave the OP some ideas to help with the issue they were having, which I hope was at least a little informative and one of many possible solutions for their issue.
The topic simply reminded me of what I had noticed over the past few years of Toy Hauler ramps getting steeper and steeper due to the current design trends by the manufacturers. This was just an observation and opinion posted within the context of the conversation, nothing more.
AND, yes it is very amusing watching some people trying to load their toys in the some of these hijacker toyhaulers I see more and more on the market. BUT, guess what.. you can always bet that as I am chuckling at them trying to get them in there I am always the first one walking over to give them a hand, even in the pouring rain.
That is one reason we liked the KZ. It is low to the ground so the ramp is not very steep, even if loading/unloading when not level. The ramp door has a flip over extension at the top and one also at the gap.
Oh, and if it's wet, it can be a bit tricky to load. I usually get it in a bit sideways if the tires are wet but I still have enough room to move around in the garage to straighten the bike out.
2009 4X4 Chevrolet Duramax/Allison 3500HD Crew Cab DRW
2007 Sportsman Sportster KZ 33P Toy Hauler
"It's not the destination, it's the journey."
The angle at the top of the ramp is a bear. The bottom of the bike scrapes at that point. What we will try next is a 2x6 on the ground under the ramp edge, and a piece of plywood at the bridge. A diamond plate extension will probably be a more permanent fix. The Outback is very high off the ground.
Maregold wrote: The angle at the top of the ramp is a bear. The bottom of the bike scrapes at that point. What we will try next is a 2x6 on the ground under the ramp edge, and a piece of plywood at the bridge. A diamond plate extension will probably be a more permanent fix. The Outback is very high off the ground.
I just put a loose piece of EZ track about 12" long under the ramp between the ramp and the unit. I have two sections one for each side. I go in and out without any problems. I did add an additional bumper on each side of the rear of my unit for ground conditions.
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