Idling bad ? BS ! Thats was proven wrong many moons ago, in gas engines anyway. Nothing idled more than cop & hiway patrol engines, and those engines last twice as long as engines that are seldom idled.
Rich
'98 Flair, 454, Onan Microlite 4k, Intel PD 9155 w/ wizard, Sta-power 1500 watt Inv, 2 6v batts, ammeters, KingDome/sat, Oly Catalytic Heat, hauling 2 Bent Bikes and sometimes towing a Tracker F&S boat.
Every one of the diesel engine manufacturers states that it is bad to idle a DIESEL, as insufficient combustion temps are maintained to allow complete combustion.
Don't know why Caterpillar, Cummins and Detroit Diesel would "make that up". So until I have FACTS to the contrary, their advice holds.
But, let's look at it another way. If there is even a low risk that you are going to do potential harm to the engine, waste fuel and cause pollution make sure there is a good reason for doing so.
* This post was
edited 11/09/09 01:54pm by wolfe10 *
The DDEC in our motorhome collects statistics that are downloaded at maintenance time. One statistic is Excessive Idle Time. The DDEC also displays an Excessive Idle notice (in bold letters) after a short period of idling and one should switch the Series 60 to high idle (about 1000 rpm).
I have read that Excessive Idle is almost as bad as quick shutdown for these engines. Other diesels may be different. This makes things inconvienient when pulling in for the diesel pumps after an extended drive pulling the toad or trailer. I alway try to remember to pull into parking to cool things down before pulling up to the pump and shutting off.
Dian, Robert & Precious - Presently RV'ing in Europe!
2000 45' Featherlite Vogue 5000, tag, slide, Detroit Series 60
2006 19' Towcorp enclosed trailer w/60" tongue
2004 13' Ultima GTR (9.9 seconds standing quarter mile)
Idling, the two edge sword. We want to warm up our engines before we go, but in truth, modern diesel engines mostly do not create enough heat at low idle, in cold weather to prevent a condition known as "wet stacking". "Wet stacking" is a condition where small amounts of fuel do not fully combust during the power stroke. This "unburnt" fuel collects and eventually runs down the cylinder wall and washes the lubricating oil away, thereby greatly increasing wear. To exagerate the problem, the new ultra low sulphur fuel has even less lubricity than before, and again excessive idling is not good. Some engines are more prone to wet stacking than others, but the real deal is try not to idle any more than needed.
Me, the DW, 2 dogs and more.
1998 Overland Larado, 41', one slide, 325 Cummins, '02 Jeep Liberty Upgrades we've done: SMI-Air Force 1 towed brake system, replaced all 3 TVs with new hiDef LCDs, inst. Xantrex 2Kw Inverter, Prog. Ind. HW50 surge protector
fordsooperdooty wrote: Big over the road rigs no longer practice idling when parked for a number of reasons. All light duty diesel manufacturers now recommend no more than a 3 minute idle prior to parking, with a maximum of 5 minutes on large displacement diesels during hot weather or after an especially hard pull.
30 States have adapted a "diesel engine idle reduction standard" (also called "idle-free") from the Feds, and State and Federal grant money are available to fleets. Trucks in the USA use an average of 840 million gallons of diesel per year just idling! Most fleets have gone to 'auxiliary power units' (small diesel generators or electrical outlets next to the parked rigs) to power over the road trucks cab heat, engine heaters and air conditioning when parked.
Not Only does it save money on diesel, but prevents additional wear that occurs when a diesel idles for extended periods. A idling engine may experience a situation called "cylinder wash-down" where diesel will actually wash the lubrication off of the cylinders accelerating piston wear.
The engine wear part was the only thing I was asking about..and yes while many rig have gone to AUX gensets on board..that costs many $$$ this dude that makes the Idle-Air units I was watching developed it because his own brother in law got a citation for "excessively idling" somewhere??
It was determined that even with an aux power unit it costs the driver $1.85 an hour to run it and that after buying a $10 window adapter kit you can plug into the Idle-Air system and save $1 an hour. It give the driver cable Tv ( many channels) AC or Heat ( depending on which he needed) telephone hookup and additional 120 VAC to power different small appliances..and THEY were the ones that determined how much wear on the engine was saved.
2000 Country Coach Allure; Cummins ISC 330 HP; 71/2 - 8 MPG regardless
2002 Jeep Liberty
RJsfishin wrote: Idling bad ? BS ! Thats was proven wrong many moons ago, in gas engines anyway. Nothing idled more than cop & hiway patrol engines, and those engines last twice as long as engines that are seldom idled.
Yes, but you're forgetting on thing, at least with regards to the Ford Crown Victoria Police versus non police versions. The police version has a 50 to 150 engine RPM increase over the civilian version depending on model year. Besides everyone knows the idiling for those vehicles is for radio/computer/cameras and lights.
Therefore, oil pressure, coolant pressures, and cooling fans all run at appropriate levels.
TV 02' Chevy Silverado 3500 8.1 liter 4X4, Rancho 9000, Airlift Airbags 2 Honda EU3000,plus paralleling kit (6000 Watts peak!)
Old Rig (03' Lance 1161) Boy I missed it!
New Rig (05' Cedar Creek 37RDQS)
Second new Rig 1996 Damon Intruder 325B
John&Joey wrote: Don't know for sure, but when we were in Florida last winter everyone made sure their rigs ran for at least 30 minutes once a month. Local logic was it kept things lubed. I followed local logic, no problems.
Wow, wonder where you stayed(we wouold have shut them down in a heartbeat)? We had a few Captains who ran their diesel boat engines once a week when not being used-they were the only ones who had continuous engine problems! Without aload not a good thin!
So were the boat engines taking water from outside, or was it a closed system like a MH? Saltwater or fresh? Really don't know why we would compare a marine application to a land one, but you must have a reason for doing it.
Again I went with the local logic, the ones that would leave their rig's all summer down there without having someone start them, would tell stories of leaking transmissions and engines. Me I go with the flow wherever I am. I figure the locals know what their talking about.
IMHO, I don't think it makes a bit of difference for the length of time a person owns his rig. What really needs to happen is the rig needs to be used, and not just as housing.
John&Joey wrote: So were the boat engines taking water from outside, or was it a closed system like a MH? Saltwater or fresh?
Don't know what this has to do with RVing, but:
Most modern marine engines have "closed cooling systems". The engine has regular coolant in it. This coolant circulates through a HEAT EXCHANGER that functions as a radiator does on land vehicles. It is a water to water "radiator" vs water to air radiator.
The marine engine has not only the regular water pump, but a "raw water pump" that brings in sea water and puts it through the heat exchanger.
On some metal hull boats part of the hull is used as the heat exchanger-- it is called a "keel cooler". The heat from the engine coolant circulated in contact with the metal skin of the vessel removes the heat from the coolant.
Agree with poster that said diesel engine computer will record long low idle times that can and will be read out when the rig in is for service. At Camp Freightliner they detailed all this info and quite plainly said -- if a problem occured and a long/low idle time had been recorded - it could very well throw a monkey wrench in the business when it comes to warranty - don't low idle very long. After an initial warm up for a minute or so -- run up to 1000 rpm and even then -- don't idle very long. It's just not necessary.
People still do it, waste all that fuel, makes lots of noise, just because they think in thier own minds "its the thing to do".
We fast idle just long enough to air up the suspension and roll slowly. By the time you get out on the road -- its warmed up enough to be safe.
When I was a trucker ,we would idle our trucks,hard to sleep at 30 below zero and 115 above zero,however we would bump up our idle speed using the criuse control to about 1000-1100 rpm
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