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Open Roads Forum  >  Class B - Camping Van Conversions

 > Chevy 4.8L V8 Engine-vs- Chevy 6.0L V8 Engine

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sergeant76

New Bedford, MA

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Posted: 11/17/09 07:48pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Looking at the RoadTrek Web Site, Specifications, comparing information on the engines on a 2002 Dodge RoadTrek Engine, 318, and 360, RoadTrek, 2008 Chevy RoadTrek Engine, and the 2009 Chevy RoadTrek Engine, I read the following.

2002 Dodge - 318 Engine: 5.2L - 225 HP
2002 Dodge - 360 Engine: 5.9L - 245 HP
2008 Chevy - Engine: 6.0L - 323 HP
2009 Chevy - Engine: 4.8L SFI - 285 HP

Does this mean that the 2009 Chevy with the 4.8L SFI Engine, 285 HP, has more power than a 2002 Dodge with the 5.9L Engine, 245 HP?

Would the 4.8L be roughly equivalent to the 318CI in the older Dodge units?

I realize that the 4.8L engine is smaller.

Would appreciate a clarification.

Ron


Ron & Rose Cabral
New Bedford, MA
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LVJJJ

NW WASHINGTON

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Posted: 11/19/09 09:47am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When moving heavy vehicles the most important number is torque, it gets the big mass moving, and then horsepower takes over to make it go faster. So, it's hard to compare these engines with horsepower specs alone. My old 454 had over 500 ft lbs of torque and only 240 horsepower, but that's what's needed for towing. Also the bore and stroke ratio is an important factor. for towing you want a long stroke for more torque, so that's another comparison that needs to be listed for the best engine for your unit. Because Class B's are much heavier than standard vans, torque becomes the more important factor in chosing and engine.


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Handbasket

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Posted: 11/19/09 03:29pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think as a part of the decision process, I'd maybe go to a big GM dealer and see about driving two approximately equal vans, one with each. You may not be able to find two 3500's with the different engines and whatever gear ratios are used by RT. But back to back drives in similar 1500's may give you some idea of what to expect.

You may also want to factor in where you live and largely plan to travel. If there's a lot of mountain driving coming up, I'd probably opt for the 6.0 just on that basis. If it's going to be a lot of flatlands and low elevation interstates, then it's harder to call.

Jim, "You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive."


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BudJ

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Posted: 11/19/09 03:14pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There is some misinformation concerning hp and torque above, with bore and stroke having nothing to do with hp and torque per se. Electric engines don't have bore and stroke, but they do have hp and torque.

Very simply:

hp = torque times rpm divided by 5252

hp is how we measure the work an engine will do whether drag racing, towing or cruising.

But there is obviously more to it than hp as that is only one of many 'features' of an engine. There is also fuel economy, noise, reliability, maintenance, life span, and on and on........ The last one I would be concerned with is torque. I can't imagine why I would even want to know it. Well, I suppose that I might, IF I could not know anything about the other features cited above.

There was an excellent post here or on the Roadtrek forum with an analysis of the 2 engines, and why someone might choose one over the other. If important, you might want to do a search.

If important, one could probably obtain and answer from GM about one engine vs. the other. There is reasonable chance that Roadtrek already has an answer concerning one engine vs. another. Me, I would pick up the phone and call Roadtrek, then GM if necessary.

Bud

LVJJJ

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Posted: 11/19/09 10:01am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

With the huge leaps in engine technology since 01, it's really hard to compare engines. I'd have to guess that the 295ci (4.8) Chevy engine does have more power than the old 318, but at some point the bigger cubic inch engine is going to be better for moving a heavy vehicle regardless of technology. However, my 292 6 cylinder engine in my 65 Chevy Van has more torque than a Chevy 350 v8, so in some ways its better for towing or moving heavy vehicles. I'm sure there are some more savvy engine experts out there that can advise you better. All I know for sure is that my 364ci (6.0) Chevy engine out performs and out tows my old 454ci (7.4) big time.

booster

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Posted: 11/19/09 03:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BudJ wrote:

There is some misinformation concerning hp and torque above, with bore and stroke having nothing to do with hp and torque per se. Electric engines don't have bore and stroke, but they do have hp and torque.

Very simply:

hp = torque times rpm divided by 5252


In actuallity the the bore and stoke of an engine (and the bore/stroke ratio) have a very large affect on the torque produced by an engine of any given displacement, and at what rpm that torque is produced.

In general, long stroke, small bore, (less than 1 bore to stroke ratio) will produce more torque, at lower rpm. Big bore, short stroke engines will produce less torque, but be able to spin much higher rpms, and thus make higher make hp numbers.

A good example from "back in the day" would be to compare Ford 300 cid 6 cylinder to the 302 cid V8. The 302 would make significantly more hp, and spin to a much higher rpm, but the 300 6 cylinder is what they put in their trucks, because it would pull like a much larger engine, because of its long stroke.

This is why you need to see a complete torque curve to evaluate whether an engine is good for a particular application. On the earlier thread about the 3 engines used (old 6.0, new 6.0, 4.8) I posted the torque curves, and it showed (at least to me) that for a class B, I would prefer the older, lower hp 6.0 because it has more torque at the lower rpms. In this case, the difference is not because of bore or stroke, as both 6.0 are the same, but is most likely an intake and cam change to move up the power curve (in this case moving it too far IMO). The 6.0 has a bigger bore than stroke, so you would expect it to react to higher rpm with more power, which it does very well, but at the expense of some low end power. The 4.8 is also bigger bore and gets its power up top. For comparison, the Ford V10 has a longer stroke than bore, and generates its torque at a much lower rpm than the Chevy engines. This is why so many of the builders of the bigger rigs use the V10. It just plain pulls better because of its design.

Atlee

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Posted: 11/19/09 05:38pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BudJ wrote:

There is some misinformation concerning hp and torque above, with bore and stroke having nothing to do with hp and torque per se. Electric engines don't have bore and stroke, but they do have hp and torque.

Very simply:

hp = torque times rpm divided by 5252

hp is how we measure the work an engine will do whether drag racing, towing or cruising.

But there is obviously more to it than hp as that is only one of many 'features' of an engine. There is also fuel economy, noise, reliability, maintenance, life span, and on and on........ The last one I would be concerned with is torque. I can't imagine why I would even want to know it. Well, I suppose that I might, IF I could not know anything about the other features cited above.

There was an excellent post here or on the Roadtrek forum with an analysis of the 2 engines, and why someone might choose one over the other. If important, you might want to do a search.

If important, one could probably obtain and answer from GM about one engine vs. the other. There is reasonable chance that Roadtrek already has an answer concerning one engine vs. another. Me, I would pick up the phone and call Roadtrek, then GM if necessary.

Bud


I suspect all RT knows is this. The 4.8 is standard, so that is what they will order. It's cheaper to RT to do that, rather than order the 6.0 for all of their vans.

They used to do the same thing for the old Dodge. If you didn't order otherwise, you'd get the 318ci.

It seems like most other brands of Class B's built on the Dodge chassis tended to come with the larger of the two engines.


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charles

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Posted: 11/19/09 04:17pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Very interesting information, especially for those of us who know nothing about torque. I do know that when I went from a V-8 Ford Excel to a V-10 Ford Excel, the difference was felt immediately, when starting from a dead stop it was like having a high performance engine, and coupled with the 5 speed, the difference in mileage was only 1 mpg and the engine seemed to run effortlessly. I do have a question, now having my first Chevy chassis and being a 5.3 litre, why is there no option to have the 5.3 on the Roadtreks? Is it a torgue or power problem? Just curious.


Nick
10 Explorer X-ST


2012 Pleasure-way Excel TS

booster

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Posted: 11/19/09 04:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

charles wrote:

Very interesting information, especially for those of us who know nothing about torque. I do know that when I went from a V-8 Ford Excel to a V-10 Ford Excel, the difference was felt immediately, when starting from a dead stop it was like having a high performance engine, and coupled with the 5 speed, the difference in mileage was only 1 mpg and the engine seemed to run effortlessly. I do have a question, now having my first Chevy chassis and being a 5.3 litre, why is there no option to have the 5.3 on the Roadtreks? Is it a torgue or power problem? Just curious.


Nick
10 Explorer X-ST


It is interesting that Chevy has chosen the 6.0 and 4.8 as the "heavier" truck engines, with the 5.3 only available in the lower rating trucks like 1/2 tons. I haven't seen the torque curves on the 5.3, so I can't speak to that part of it, but I would expect it to be somewhat of a cross between the 4.8 and 6.0, and definitely slanted toward the higher rpms, based on the vehicles they use it in.

From what I have heard about the current engine designs and applications, getting more hp out of the engines is just the beginning, especially as the vehicles get heavier. Getting rid of the execess heat in the engine seems to often be one of the limiting factors, as well as transmission capabilities, both from a torque/hp sense and from a heat point of view. The 5.3 just may not be able to generate adequate power levels for longer periods of time, Without issues, in the heavy vehicles.

If you look at the torque curve for the newer 6.0, it shows that they cut off the power rating at a point where the torque and hp are both still growing at good rate. This is very unusual, as they always want to advertise the biggest numbers, which the engine obviously can do, but they limit it. Most likely it has to do with the fact that the 9600# gross weight van is capable of actually using that much power on a contiuous basis (think mountain). The problem comes with the engine generating too much waste heat to dissipate for that long a time. In a lighter vehicle, it could never need that much power for that long, so it is not an issue. The engine gets a chance to cool down after a burst of power use. The tranmission could also be a problem for the same reason, too much heat generated for too long. The old 6.0 had a lower rpm torque curve, so it was on the downslide, power wise, by the time it got to the hp numbers that would generate too much heat, and was thus self-limiting. That is why I prefer the old 6.0 engine, as it uses more of its capabilities, without wasting any (more torque at the low end).

booster

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Posted: 11/19/09 06:00pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here is a link to the thread that includes the torque curves for the 3 engines.

Old engine thread

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