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Open Roads Forum  >  Fifth-Wheels

 > 3/4 ton diesel limits on fifth wheel

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me2

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Posted: 03/13/10 08:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wandering1 wrote:

Check out the specs on your truck. The dealer has them or you can get them on line from ford. You need to make this decision, you are rersponsible for safe towing of your RV.

That is a great answer. I can't believe it when I hear people saying that a salesman told them they could tow a certain trailer with their truck. What does a salesman know about your truck ? He sells trailers !

There is no substitute for the owner doing the research and math himself.

dubdub07

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Posted: 03/13/10 09:26am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AGBAT wrote:

The short answer is 10,000lb 5th Wheel. You can carry more and pull more but for you and the truck to be comfortable, limit the 5er to 10,000lbs loaded weight. That will allow you plenty of power up hills, no strain on windy days, and keep you from working at the edge of the trucks capabilities.


This is opinion, 10K is a cake walk for any diesel. I would say closer to 12,500# for a newer 2500 diesel as long as pin wt stays below 2500lbs.


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Posted: 03/13/10 11:54am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have both a truck camper and a fifth wheel. I always get a kick out of pin weight discussions on the fifth wheel forum. TC guys routinely carry 1-2000 lbs or more over the weight rating of their trucks. One can debate where it is advisable, but I don't think you can even find a less than 2500lb truck camper. The rule in truck campers is stay within the tire ratings. On a typical diesel that would give you a good 3000 lbs pin weight or more before you needed to be concerned. That covers the vast majority of fifth wheels.


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AGBAT

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Posted: 03/13/10 10:28am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

I would say closer to 12,500# for a newer 2500 diesel as long as pin wt stays below 2500lbs.


And I suppose that is fact It is all opinion but if you want to answer the question of how much trailer should the poster be looking for, the best answer is 10,000lb for that truck. Something with less than 2000lbs of pin weight loaded. Not the 2500lb pin weight you recommend.

Your opinion may differ but since you do not have any actual weights for the truck, passengers, cargo, nor do you know the gear ratio, or any other information besides your personal guesses, I guess my opinon is just as valid as yours.

BTW FYI the max cargo capacity for a 08 chevy diesel is 2593lbs so if the pin weight was 2500lb you could not carry people, or fuel, or anything else over 93 lbs. Of course that is the opinon of Chevy.

ol Bombero-JC

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Posted: 03/13/10 12:06pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

me2 wrote:

marspec wrote:

Real world with a 2005 F-250 6.0 LWB Super Cab. Actual weight of fiver 13,960#. Hitch weight 2,640#. With 2 pax, full fuel and the 60# dog I was 320# over the trucks 9,800# GVW, 460# under the rear axle rating, and 1,640# under the combined max of truck and trailer. I added Timbrens and a heavy duty rear stabilizer bar.
Truck pulled fine but after a couple of emergency stops and I no longer tow the fiver with the 250. No matter how defensively you drive there's always that other driver who thinks that extra space you're trying to maintain is an invitation to fill it while they don't pay attention to the sea of red lights ahead.


320 pounds over the GVW of your F250 shouldn't cause any problem whatsoever given that you were still 680 pounds under the GVW of an F350.

For whatever reason people don't seem to understand that the tow vehicle should NOT be responsible for stopping the trailer. The trailer has its own brakes.

If you aren't over the GVWR of the truck, there should be no problem handling the trailer.

Most of the problems that people talk about on these forums involve stopping. The solution to that problem is to put some decent brakes on the trailer. Having the tow vehicle stop the trailer is a recipe for a JACKNIFE.


~

So the OTR semi with an 80K trailer using it's three stage jake without ever touching the service brakes . . . . is somehow stopping (slowing) using the trailer brakes?

Also, on your previous post about adding suspension upgrades and somehow using documentation to show that it's "the same" as a factory rating - probably won't work if it comes to the test - "in court".
(IMO - "could", "may", and/or "might" - are a better choice of words).

Fortunately, chances are - nobody will ever be in that situation.

~

JC

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Posted: 03/13/10 10:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Jimnlin and Donn0128 use different ratings both are valid. GVWR is the safety side, GAWR would be more the max load. I run well within my GVWR. You will need to do some homework with your weights and ratings. I have read somewhere that 50% of the campers out there are over on at least 1 rating. Hopefully not on Jim's method.


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marspec

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Posted: 03/13/10 02:46pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

All I can say is my dually handles the same fiver much better than my 250, especially on those twisty downhill runs in the Rockies, Cascades, Smokies and Appalachians. I'm much more relaxed at the end of the day.


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richfaa

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Posted: 03/13/10 01:12pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The truck will tell you much. Look at the door sticker and check out the numbers. The only example I can give you my Truck..
08 F-350 Ford, 6.4L,CC,LL 4X4 Dually,4:10diff

From the door sticker GVWR 13,000lbs, Front axle 6K, Rear Axle 9K, Cargo Capacity 4268lbs. What I know. The truck full fuel, two people, 5th wheel hitch and all our towing stuff in the bed weighs 9215lbs. Subtract that number from the rated Cargo Capacity and the real Cargo capacity is 13,000lbs less 9250lbs = 3750lbs. Now comes the pin weight which is usually what seperates the 3/4 ton from the 1 ton truck. The pin weight on the 5th wheel since it is carried in the truck is part of the Cargo capacity so my real CC is 3750 .My real as weighed pin weight 2915lbs = I am 835 lbs within my Cargo capacity. The numbers do not lie and tell the story
The manufacturere can tell you the tow rating of the truck Example mine is 15,300lbs

The 5th wheel will also tell a story from the sticker on the side... Example GVWR
15,500lbs 7K axles the tire ratings on the tire will tell you the tire load capacity

All you need to do is fit your equipment withing the numbers.....or.... Ignore everything and hook it up and yank it down the road.


2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky. 08 Ford F-350 6.4L

SteveRankin

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Posted: 03/13/10 01:08pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A 3/4-ton diesel truck can pull a 5th wheel just as well as a 1-ton. The reason that most 5th wheel owners have a 1-ton is that the 3/4-ton can't carry the pin weight of a 5th.

To figure out what size 5ver your F250 is suitable for:

1. Determine your trucks cargo capacity. This is best done by weighing the truck, but the quick alternative is to look it up in the Ford specs. It's probably in the 2,200-2,500# range.

2. Subtract the weight of you, DW & any stuff you'll carry in the truck. Don't forget the weight of the hitch (200# for a std hitch, 300# for a slider).

3. Since pin weight is 20-25% of trailer GVW, multiply the remaining cargo capacity by 4 or 5. Four will be conservative while 5 will be somewhat optimistic.


I'll use our 2005 Chevy K2500HD with it's 9,200# GVWR as an example. Our truck's cargo capacity was 2,250#. Subtract 425# for myself, DW & the dogs, 300# for the SuperGlide, 500# for the 50-gallon auxiliary fuel tank and we've used up exactly half of our cargo capacity leaving 1,225# left for pin weight. Multiply by 4 or 5 to convert pin weight to GVW and we get 4,900-6,125#. Not much of a 5th wheel. FYI, if we didn't carry the extra fuel, we'd be looking at 6,900-8,625# trailer GVW. Still not much.

So, we moved up to an F350 & a 3,600# cargo capacity. The Super 5th hitch weighs 100# less, so our acceptable pin weight is 2,475# which lets us tow a 9,900-12,375# 5ver. Our 5vers GVWR is 10,000# so we're inside specs which is where we want to be.


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dubdub07

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Posted: 03/13/10 02:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

AGBAT wrote:

Quote:

I would say closer to 12,500# for a newer 2500 diesel as long as pin wt stays below 2500lbs.


And I suppose that is fact It is all opinion but if you want to answer the question of how much trailer should the poster be looking for, the best answer is 10,000lb for that truck. Something with less than 2000lbs of pin weight loaded. Not the 2500lb pin weight you recommend.

Your opinion may differ but since you do not have any actual weights for the truck, passengers, cargo, nor do you know the gear ratio, or any other information besides your personal guesses, I guess my opinon is just as valid as yours.

BTW FYI the max cargo capacity for a 08 chevy diesel is 2593lbs so if the pin weight was 2500lb you could not carry people, or fuel, or anything else over 93 lbs. Of course that is the opinon of Chevy.


No use in arguing, for sho!!! I am just throwing it out there, your numbers, albeit safe, are low. Use your truck for what it was meant!!! Pulling, baby, pulling!!! Your "Superman" 3500s are the same truck as a 2500. You don't get a free cape with every purchase. You can "under-use" your truck, if you want. OR...you can do the research and tow what your truck can handle....

aAd at the end of the day when the research is done, a 2500 can handle about 2500# of pin and a 12,000# trailer. Those that know what effect a FW has in conjunction with GVWR know that 2500# is about the max. FWIW.

At the end of the day....it is what we are all comfy with! Not what some dude in NM or NE says.....

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