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Open Roads Forum  >  Truck Campers

 > LED radio interfance

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AnEv942

CA

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Posted: 03/26/10 10:59pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So i finally finished switching to LED . I had only ordered 5 bulbs for the most used lights. But when I saw them installed I wanted more. Went to the local RV shop they had the older 64led bulbs that he sold to me for $12. Ill use in the porch & entry lights cause there not on very long, they are regualted but generate a lot of heat.
At any rate I finished moding the porch lite fixture to accept the bayonet verses wedge style. I was waiting for it to get dark to see how the porch lite worked, was listening to the radio (which I had just moved and reinstalled under cabinet). As it was getting darker decided 'hey I can turn on a light-thier LEDS no power drain" I reached over flicked on light..radio goes static, turn off light radio comes in clear?/
Tried the porch light hey it works..so does the radio. I tried all lights, swapped bulbs, verfied its the 'better' bulbs from ledtrailerlights that causee radio to go static.. Searched around and found this not uncommon, mostly marine use. But found no conclusive fix.
Radio we dont really listen to but...
Anyone else have or heard of this problem. Havnt tried the TV.
Seems it might be the way the 'better' bulbs are regualted. Any thoughts?
Mark


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bobndot

USA

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Posted: 03/26/10 11:17pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A poster on this forum states that he used a ferrite choke on the positive terminal . Maybe someone with an electrical background can shed some light on that .

what are ferrite chokes


Anyways, here is the apparent solution:

"We will have a fix for the FM available at the end of next week, you just need to slip a ferrite choke over the positive wire. Its a simple fix. A few e60 guys had this problem, because BMW did not properly insulate the antenna on some cars. "

Golden_HVAC

Fulltime, CA, USA

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Posted: 03/26/10 11:35pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hi,

My guess is the lower cost LED lights use a simple resistor to reduce the voltage and thus amperage to the desired amount of amperage per bulb.

The more expensive and energy efficient LED lights might be using some sort of chopper, that takes the full 12 volts and feeds this to a tiny capacitor, charging it to only 3 - 6 volts (or what is desired). It will turn on and off the 12 volt power as many times as needed, to keep it at the desired voltage. Say it is set to turn on and off at 2,000 cycles per second. It will only turn on long enough to harge the capacitor to 6 volts, and will not turn on the 12 volt power again until the voltage is say 5.5 volts. This saves energy, but might create the noise you are hearing in the radio. It will happen more on AM than on FM.

Good Luck,

Fred.

SCVJeff

Santa Clarita, CA.

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Posted: 03/27/10 12:45am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I heard this on a friends coach the other night listening to FM.

When he gets back I'm gonna steal the lamp and see what it takes to quiet it down. I have a drawer of ferite beads and a few thousand caps laying around. Hopefully it's an easy fix.


Jeff - WA6EQU
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silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 03/27/10 04:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

....I vote for a capacitor fix myself. There is also an anti RF spray coating one could use to shield the light fixture innards (spray it's insides with this paint-like coating). Or, use copper tape to turn your fixtures into a kind of Faraday cage...

I'm following this closely...

Silver-


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Roadpilot

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Posted: 03/27/10 07:16am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would bet it's conducted noise versus radiated noise. A good low esr cap. might do the trick. If you really want a good filter use the ferrite bead in conjunction with a low esr cap.


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AnEv942

CA

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Posted: 03/27/10 10:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

appreciate the responses
Margaret says "Your suprised?, you said it was a bolt-on". Good greif just changin bulbs, why can the simplest things cause grief. Course I hadnt heard of this until After installtion.

From what I gather searching around it is line noise and I too found its the regualtion thats the problem, which would be fixable hopefully. What I dont get is why it affects some not all(why me [emoticon]. Variables... Adding the ferite beads doesnt seem to consistantly work in the few cases I found, and adding to all fixtures will be painfull. Capacitors would be nice & easier to add to lights if they worked, I use those in all my R/C stuff to suppress radio clitching, both if I need to. I noted the interferance when moding light & testing in the shop but radio is constantly fading out there so didnt think anything of it. I have an other fixture, Ill take to shop, to verify if line or radiated noise. Due to close proximety of stuff in camper would be difficult to isolate. I just thru up my hands last night.

I guess first Ill look at camper-try to determine what is actually happening& to what. Fixing-I could do -determing what to use though is beyond me so any identification of what might quiet the bulbs down would be really apreciated. Just fact finding now, see if all lines are affected, see if TV picks it up- though we dont get signal here since the switch. Check the laptop thru innverter. Oh just take the portable radio out to camper to check for radiated interferance. Try running camper radio from power supply from house. There are 2 unused low power circuts on the new converter-dont know if they are filtered-
maybe its just the cheap radio the camper came with [emoticon]

SCVJeff

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Posted: 03/27/10 12:58pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It most likely affects most, they just don't know it yet. Any of the better lamps are designed to work from somewhere around 11 to 16+ volts in order to maintain consistent brightness and not to blow them up when on shore power when the charger is in a Condition mode (exceptionally high house voltage). In order to do that, each light contains a small DC-DC switching supply that is generating wide-band noise across the band. I too think it's being radiated out the +12V supply line since the RFI is emanating from the 1st thing on the board. I have emailed the design engineer of one of these lamps to see if he was aware of the problem, but for the rest of the manufacturers in China, I suspect we're on our own. Hopefully this can be shut down with a .01uf cap, but in my (long time ago) experience with quieting these down it's probably gonna be a 10uf Tantalum that's a little harder to find. Film @ 11...

AnEv942

CA

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Posted: 03/27/10 01:17pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

On edit: ...eagerly awaiting film@11

Ok went to camper with portable radio plugged into house, camper on battery, portable FM also picks up staticsnow when lights turned on. AM is virtually unaffected on even the faintest station, can hear slightly if off channell. We are in a fringe area, I tuned radio to the 1 local strong FM channel we have, not affected by lights. So if access to strong FM broadcast or any AM should be able to listen to radio, with leds on-but camping were usualy in fringe areas for reception. Oh radio is on a seperate fused circut.

The TV does pick it up also, going thru the DTV box, lights on you can barley read screen. BUT, antenna is down and we dont get enough signal here on the 2 local channels so dont know if lights will interfer with actuall reception. I did note the TV is more affected the closer the light, the further away the less interferance-the bath light barley, the sink light which is directly below anttena was the worst, so again maybe with antenna up, strong signal, sink light off..

Unless we come up with a way to kill the noise, I guess Ill be taking my 1141 (1.5amps) & 6cp (0.5amp) bulbs with us or using the floresants (0.6 amps) for those rainy days. Love the light output of the new LEDS, Im showing less than 0.3 amp draw with 2 lights on. The noise just is suprising.
I dont conclude either way still though, excpet for tv , if this is line or broadcast noise
Going out to shop to see what I can stick a paper clip in...
Mark

Edit again
Im out of caps-tried a large ?feriite I had, actually got worse, no matter location or loops. Had a 6amp diode laying there I jumped power leads got mariginally better, so cap would work better. So Robbed a 8 102K KCK cap off old vcr board-killed the noise completely! my 1st try was on bulb but dont really want to solder on bulbs, tried at wire connection, not as good, tried at lamp switch zero noise, seems closer to bulb more effect. So a capacitor seems to be the trick-cool small easy to add. Now to identify what cap to use. Im off to R-S to get an assortment

* This post was edited 03/27/10 02:47pm by AnEv942 *

JoeChiOhki

Sauvie Island, OR

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Posted: 03/27/10 02:52pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Edit: You fixed it before I finished posting [emoticon]


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