PrivatePilot wrote: You mentioned the parasitic load of your converter, but then you also mentioned that you had turned off all the circuit breakers except for the air-conditioner one. Are you suggesting that the converter is remaining on despite breakers being off?
If indeed your converter is still on that could certainly be the source of your problem.
You've also confirmed that your electric hot water tank is indeed isolated as well, correct?
It certainly sounds as if you're on the right track by switching off circuit breakers to try to isolate the air conditioner, but given as how some travel trailers are wired in such a bizarre fashion today it wouldn't surprise me if there's still a phantom load somewhere that you might be missing? With all of the breaker set in the same position that you've been doing this testing, the generators in Eco m ode, and the air conditioning switched fully off, when you plug the trailer into the generators is there any sort of RPM bump or sudden load (even for a split second) evident?
I may have this wrong, but it was my understanding that the converter/breaker/fuse was a single contained unit. If I was correct in this, it was my assumption that anytime the main breaker was on the converter unit is getting power even if the input breaker is opened. Perhaps, I am completely off base about this. But ultimately I am reasonably certain that everything else is isolated from the genset.
To answer you question about the power to the h20 heater, yes it is off. I am lucky enough to have manual switches for both wh functions.
I don't have them in front of me, but I can tell you that they were purchased about a month ago.
One is the Northern Tool (grey) and the other is a CPE (red). Aside from the oil fill provisions and color they look identicle. The grey is rated for 1700 continous watts, the red is rated for 1600.
Although the converter and the 120V circuitry, breakers, etc. commonly share a single spot in the trailer, they are two distinctly different units under the hood.
Typically the only interconnection between the two is where the converter power source wires run to the 120 V side and draw power for the converter.
On my trailer the converter is wired to the same circuit breaker as almost every since receptacle in the trailer, with the exception of the one that the microwave is plugged into in the cabinet, and the one outside GFI plug...so when that breaker is off, so is the converted.
As part of my modifications try to get my air conditioner to run on a smaller generator that I owned at one point, I actually installed a toggle switch next to the converter that allows me to shut it off without having to cut power to all the other receptacles in the trailer. Although I don't think that's necessary in your case, it is an option if you find out that the converter is somehow hardwired in such a way that turning breakers off won't kill the power to it.
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PrivatePilot wrote: Although the converter and the 120V circuitry, breakers, etc. commonly share a single spot in the trailer, they are two distinctly different units under the hood.
Typically the only interconnection between the two is where the converter power source wires run to the 120 V side and draw power for the converter.
On my trailer the converter is wired to the same circuit breaker as almost every since receptacle in the trailer, with the exception of the one that the microwave is plugged into in the cabinet, and the one outside GFI plug...so when that breaker is off, so is the converted.
As part of my modifications try to get my air conditioner to run on a smaller generator that I owned at one point, I actually installed a toggle switch next to the converter that allows me to shut it off without having to cut power to all the other receptacles in the trailer. Although I don't think that's necessary in your case, it is an option if you find out that the converter is somehow hardwired in such a way that turning breakers off won't kill the power to it.
My converter shared a circuit breaker with many outlets, too. My panel had room for additional breakers, thus I added 2 more. I cut the wire which was tied to the converter and plugs and gave the converter its own breaker.
I too have problems starting my AC unit. I put a toggle to the blower relay inside the air handler to cut the blower on the low side. With the gensets running with eco off, I can start the compressor. Then I flip the blower on. I tried a hard start capacitor #spp7. That was before I bought the Champion models. The capacitor ultimately failed. I now have a clamp meter capable of testing and reading the capacity of the original capacitors. If time permits today, I'll see if they are good. I checked local supply and nobody had the spp6e. Our safety Trailer at the Firehouse was able to be started with another Chinese knockoff inverter generator. On checking the AC unit, the capacitors looked a little different. This trailer was set up for generator use initially.
My modules have both been changed out. The spec on the shipping paper indicated non-exterior breaker. Since changing the modules, I have been able to reliably start my pancake compressor, electric power washer and skill saw with no issues. It is just the AC unit. Anyhow, time to put my daughter to bed and get the kids outside and take the AC unit apart and check those capacitors.
* This post was
edited 06/25/12 11:25am by MrRchitty *
Randall J. Chittenden
CT
Fire/Medic
Former Auto Parts Sales 12 years
I just called CPE. I explained the situation and he told me he could not do anymore troubleshooting without the genset and load device in front of me. So now I have to get my trailer back from storage and get my gens out only to try and catch these guys during business hours.......this will be fun.
As long as you do what they ask for diagnostics, I think that you'll find Champion is exceptionally good with their customer service. I know that they've bent over backwards to help a lot of people that had the burping issues, etc.
They were actually here in this thread for quite a while trying to help people directly before they were told they weren't welcome because they're not a vendor, but pretty much everybody (including myself) that have ever contacted them directly have always had good experiences.
By no means was I attacking them about what the guy was asking. When I re-read my post I felt it looked as though I was knocking them. I was just referring to the logistics behind actually diagnosing the problem. I would expect any company who is resposible to ask of me what he is . I actually look forward to it. If nothing else, it will point me in the right direction with getting the A.C. to work.
I tested my capacitors and they measured just a pinch above what they were rated for.
I still have the issue of not being able to start my Dometic 13.5k AC unit with the twin Champs.
Down at the fire station, looking at our Safety Smoke Trailer. It has an AC unit, I can't find anywhere what size it is. However, mine at home is rated at 58 amp start and 11.6 amps running. When I test it, that is about what I get.
The Safety Trailer, I had the cover off about a month ago because it was tripping a 20 amp breaker on the Honda 5000 open frame genny. Testing the capacitors and the load, (I forget the start up) but the load running was 15 amps (rating on sticker) which is what I get on the clamp meter. This is with the fan on high. So, is this unit a 15k AC unit? It is by Coleman. (Can't find any info on it)
Bring the twin Champs in to see what it does with the Coleman. With eco mode on, they go into overload. With eco mode off it starts the ac unit without any problems. I remember when I had the cover off of this unit, the capacitor looked different and appeared to have some other electronic component to it. The Safety Trailer is made to run on generator. After all it is a free standing unit that is towed to schools and other areas to teach children about fire safety. You don't have a 30 amp outlet everywhere we go. So, I am assuming this AC unit is built with a start unit capable to be handled by generators without issue.
My Springdale, however, is made to be taken campground to campground, my opinion, of course, and perhaps a cost factor as well. So, perhaps, one RV AC unit manufacturer does something a little different than another for situations such as these....
I am still in search of the SPP6E to see if this will help. There is supposed to be added benefits with the E in the part number.
Beachums wrote: By no means was I attacking them about what the guy was asking. When I re-read my post I felt it looked as though I was knocking them. I was just referring to the logistics behind actually diagnosing the problem. I would expect any company who is resposible to ask of me what he is . I actually look forward to it. If nothing else, it will point me in the right direction with getting the A.C. to work.
I too worked with the Champion techs to resolve a small burbing issue when on eco mode. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how sincere and genuine the techs
are when working with a customer. They never asked me to provide a receipt or a warranty card registration number, it was just their will to help that impressed me.
I'd jump into one of the AC threads and ask the experts - the fact that your AC unit appears to be sharing one start cap for double duty could be your problem - I know mine had 2, and I only piggybacked on the start capacitor.
I'm not an electrical tech (at least 120V, I can do 12V stuff in my sleep) so what's what under the hood of the AC isn't exactly clear to me, but the guys in the AC threads will be able to tell you for sure.
Just be prepared to ignore the "Oh geez, sell those pieces of junk and go buy a Honda/Yamaha" people who rush to the conclusion that it's the generators fault, not the AC. There are lots of people here who are quick to spend other people's money.
Solving your problem could be as easy as adding a second capacitor somehow. I suspect that the second trailer you tried had the 2 capacitors. which is why you were able to start the AC on it....probably even without the SPP6 upgrade, which would then likely have allowed you to start it on Eco mode.
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