* This post was edited 06/26/10 09:06am by Snow River TC *
Looks like someone might have forgotten to unhook before pulling away.
Brad
It happened after i raised the camper(same height as i always have), then pulled my pickup just underneath the cabover as i needed to jump out and pull the rear license plate of so that i could affix it onto the rear of the camper. Before i exited the truck, the left front Atwood jack folded, sending this 5100lb camper forward and to the left where it crushed my dually bed and reeked havic on my beautiful camper. Luckily my wife and dog were standing just off the other side when it came crashing down. And thankfully i wasn't about ten seconds ahead of myself as i would have been stooped over at the rear license plate removing it. I would have gotten penned in this collision. After hours of attempts the next day by two tow trucks, i called in a crane service who was finally able to lift the camper off the truck and load it onto a flat bed where it was delivered to a RV collision center.
2000 F-250 SD PS 04 Snowriver 9'6" Rancho 9000X Super Springs Vision 19.5 w/Toyo M608Z
Could soft ground caused stress on the jacks? Or failure at the point of connection to the camper (rotten frame etc)? I ask as I also have thhe same jacks.
Thank God you werent hurt. I hope all works out with repairs , insurance etc. Its every TC owners nightmare. Good luck.
Steve
Duramax/Lance 835
KTM/Arctic Cats
Motorized advocate in Colo. CMTRA, our local club.
www.cmtrail.org come visit!
Other Forums:
Thedieselplace.com ( chevsforever)
KTMtalk.com (xrcrasher)
Pontoonboating.com (Lounge Lizard)
Arcticchat.com (400crasher)
It appears to me that the camper jacks were probably down enough to stabilize/level the camper... the owner/driver removed the tie downs.
then, the driver of the truck probably decideded to pull out ftom under the camper... but fails to extend the jacks as far as possible.
The key observation to me is... the back of the camper has been dragged off.
NOW, Look at the ladder... how far it is bent back...
When the driver realized what was happening and put the truck in neutral it rolled (sprung) backward. but the ladder stayed at the extrem point that it had been bent to.
The fastguns tiedowns appear to be in pieces in the pictures to me...
Sleepy, 852, Amsterdam, NY
2003 Lance 1161,/slideout/AGM batteries/255W Solar/propane generator/Sat dish/2 Fantastic Fans/AC/winter pkg
AirFoil, Trimetric, LED lights, Platcat vent heat
2003GMC K3500 LT/Crewcab/duramax diesel/allison/dually/4x4/OnStar/front reciever mounted spare
xnorp
07 chev ltz D/A, ext cab,drw,4x4/ Big wig anti sway bar , torque lift tdn's ,superhitch,36" ext
2012 Chalet Acent 100 / 1988 Bigfoot / 2011 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited /1986 Harley FXLRC
'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.
'09 299bhs Tango.
Also perplexing are comments that two tow trucks could not get the camper off the truck. Why not use four bottle jacks under 4x4's under the camper floor to lift it enough to get the truck out and provide support for the camper apart from the camper's jacks then stabilize with timbers or cinder blocks.
* This post was edited 06/26/10 06:22pm by jmtandem *
jmtandem wrote:
For some reason the front jack is too many feet laterally (sideways) from the rear of the truck's normal position for that jack. A single jack failure would likely not move the camper that far. The middle of the cabover part of the camper is sitting about four feet from the middle of the truck resting on the truck's side bed. I suspect that the truck dragged the camper. If just the front jack failed the rear jacks would probably still be just fine, not taking out a huge section of the rear of the camper. It might be one of the tie downs was still attached dragging the camper as the rear section has been dragged with the jack providing resistance and tearing out the back.
Also perplexing are comments that two tow trucks could not get the camper off the truck. Why not use four bottle jacks under 4x4's under the camper floor to lift it enough to get the truck out and provide support for the camper apart from the camper's jacks then stabilize with timbers or cinder blocks.
For some reason the front jack is too many feet laterally (sideways) from the rear of the truck's normal position for that jack. A single jack failure would likely not move the camper that far. The middle of the cabover part of the camper is sitting about four feet from the middle of the truck resting on the truck's side bed. I suspect that the truck dragged the camper. If just the front jack failed the rear jacks would probably still be just fine, not taking out a huge section of the rear of the camper. It might be one of the tie downs was still attached dragging the camper as the rear section has been dragged with the jack providing resistance and tearing out the back.
Also perplexing are comments that two tow trucks could not get the camper off the truck. Why not use four bottle jacks under 4x4's under the camper floor to lift it enough to get the truck out and provide support for the camper apart from the camper's jacks then stabilize with timbers or cinder blocks.
I have the Atwood jack, but on a much lighter camper (~2,000#). The pictures puzzle me as well. I know that if my camper is level I can raise any one of the four jacks off of the ground and the camper remains pretty stable.
I can't see how any of the jacks could have failed in a way that would suddenly throw the whole camper off enough to twist and fall like that.
I also agree that the tow truck comments are puzzling since it's a pretty straightforward rigging job.
wp6529 wrote:
I have the Atwood jack, but on a much lighter camper (~2,000#). The pictures puzzle me as well. I know that if my camper is level I can raise any one of the four jacks off of the ground and the camper remains pretty stable.
I can't see how any of the jacks could have failed in a way that would suddenly throw the whole camper off enough to twist and fall like that.
I also agree that the tow truck comments are puzzling since it's a pretty straightforward rigging job.
jmtandem wrote:
For some reason the front jack is too many feet laterally (sideways) from the rear of the truck's normal position for that jack. A single jack failure would likely not move the camper that far. The middle of the cabover part of the camper is sitting about four feet from the middle of the truck resting on the truck's side bed. I suspect that the truck dragged the camper. If just the front jack failed the rear jacks would probably still be just fine, not taking out a huge section of the rear of the camper. It might be one of the tie downs was still attached dragging the camper as the rear section has been dragged with the jack providing resistance and tearing out the back.
Also perplexing are comments that two tow trucks could not get the camper off the truck. Why not use four bottle jacks under 4x4's under the camper floor to lift it enough to get the truck out and provide support for the camper apart from the camper's jacks then stabilize with timbers or cinder blocks.
For some reason the front jack is too many feet laterally (sideways) from the rear of the truck's normal position for that jack. A single jack failure would likely not move the camper that far. The middle of the cabover part of the camper is sitting about four feet from the middle of the truck resting on the truck's side bed. I suspect that the truck dragged the camper. If just the front jack failed the rear jacks would probably still be just fine, not taking out a huge section of the rear of the camper. It might be one of the tie downs was still attached dragging the camper as the rear section has been dragged with the jack providing resistance and tearing out the back.
Also perplexing are comments that two tow trucks could not get the camper off the truck. Why not use four bottle jacks under 4x4's under the camper floor to lift it enough to get the truck out and provide support for the camper apart from the camper's jacks then stabilize with timbers or cinder blocks.
I have the Atwood jack, but on a much lighter camper (~2,000#). The pictures puzzle me as well. I know that if my camper is level I can raise any one of the four jacks off of the ground and the camper remains pretty stable.
I can't see how any of the jacks could have failed in a way that would suddenly throw the whole camper off enough to twist and fall like that.
I also agree that the tow truck comments are puzzling since it's a pretty straightforward rigging job.
I would like to agree that any 3 of my jacks will hold the camper up and level.
I've had mine on our heavy camper usually full of water, propane, clothes, food, etc.
No problems in 8 years.
When unloading my camper... if the truck doesn't move easily... I stop... get out and look... do what ever and try again... gently!
What caused the failure of the mounts? If he left the front left tie down hanging from the camper, it could have caught the corner of the truck bumper, dragging the camper forward as the condition of the right rear jack suggests.
ryoung
* This post was edited 06/26/10 07:31pm by ryoung *
2004 Dodge 3500 Dually HO CTD 6 sp 4.10
2004 Lance 915
skipbee
2004 F350 Diesel CC SRW 19.5" Rickson W/T 4WD
2005 Lance 1121 well found.
12' Porta-Bote alongside
All that glisters is not gold. All who wander are not lost. See us on YouTube" Living the Lance Life" 3 of 4.
among
many was posting inacurate information , quoting Paul, one of his purposes was to
"Stir the pot"
it has been civil aroud here for the many months he has been restricted do we want his b.s. to be allowed again ??????
* This post was edited 06/26/10 11:11pm by 54suds *
jmtandem wrote:
"Another Attwood jack failure" hardly is accurate. Anybody's jacks would have failed in the similar situation. Even if the cabover part of the camper was heavily loaded and if one of the front jacks failed, the camper would rotate on the remaining front jack and the opposite rear jack. There would not be any damage to the ladder, nor any ripping of the back of the camper away from the sides. I have no issues with Beddows but this title is clearly misleading. Unfortunately, manufacturers cannot respond due to forum rules.
"Another Attwood jack failure" hardly is accurate. Anybody's jacks would have failed in the similar situation. Even if the cabover part of the camper was heavily loaded and if one of the front jacks failed, the camper would rotate on the remaining front jack and the opposite rear jack. There would not be any damage to the ladder, nor any ripping of the back of the camper away from the sides. I have no issues with Beddows but this title is clearly misleading. Unfortunately, manufacturers cannot respond due to forum rules.
????? you dont have issues with deception ????? its hard enough to get accurate & honest information
* This post was edited 06/26/10 11:16pm by 54suds *
1)visualize the camper sitting on it's own without the truck in position, and run scenarios where camper simply failed in these ways: a) completely rotted bulkhead corner(s), b) the single and only bent jack in these photos simply buckled for apparently no reason or outside influence (i.e. truck bump or drag, wind, poor soil support, etc);
2)visualize now the truck sitting under the camper with camper still standing and a) the truck was parked under the camper at a 45-deg angle to camper in an unorthodox loading approach and camper went down pivoting, b) camper jack leg buckled pulling 2 of the 3 remaining jacks completely out of the camper's corner structure(s) pivoted and went down.
I am not going to be definitive or make any pronouncements on this one, because too much info simply isn't available (i.e. land azimuth/zenith; soil type under jack pads; wind situation; jack height vis truck bed; etc, etc, etc, etc, etc). One thing appears fairly clear: 3 of the 4 camper corner super-structure appears to be rotten or severely compromised...the camper obviously is a total write-off, and truck appears to have at least $15,000 in repairs needed.
Silver-
Silver
2004 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.0L Ext/LB Tow Package 4L80E Michelin AT2s| Outfitter Caribou
Reddog1 wrote:
I really think using the TC off the truck, on the jacks put people at risk of injury.
Wayne
I really think using the TC off the truck, on the jacks put people at risk of injury.
Wayne
I agree by adding ALL jacks.
Never load or unload when people are around the camper.
The person doing the loading or unloading should also stay clear of the camper.
Never use a unloaded camper unless it is as low to the ground as possible.
We have used our camper off the truck extensively with no mishaps.
Every Lance Camper dealer I've seen shows campers to customers off the truck, on the jacks and with out mishap so far as I know.
If the truck camper is used per the manufacture recommendations it should be safe.
DG
03 Chevy Silverado Regular Cab 2500HD 4X4 Duramax
04 Lance Lite 915
I apologize to Atwood if I worded it poorly.
I did see an almost identical accident this spring in person with an Atwood jack. I make no apology for calling that one jack failure, since I witnessed it myself and he did nothing wrong that I could see. BTW, he cut the jack open when he got home to see if it was corroding from the inside as I earlier speculated. I thought there may have been a pinhole in the weld that allowed water in. It was not the case, so it appears the metal bent under the weight of the camper only. This latest incident was bought to my attention by the "victim" who did a net search on jack failure & found the account of the incident I witnessed. From what he says, it followed pretty much the same sequence of events that I witnessed personally. The ground does look softer in these pictures I must admit, so who knows, I can only go by his side of the story.
I also witnessed a 3rd failure in 2009 in Mexico. Also an Atwood. In that case which was also a Lance, the welds on a front dually bracket failed. It cause the camper to tip onto its side partially. I was impressed with both Lances that there was relatively minor damage, which says something for Lance quality.
The extra damage in this latest case is because the camper was higher than with the one in Mexico and from what I underdstand it came down faster. the one in Mexico happened in slow motion. Also, the one in Mexico was on a 3/4 ton Chevy that was much lower to the ground than this one ton dually, so in this case the impact was greater. Since the rear jacks which held firm were extended further, that caused the damage at the rear, due to a lever effect. It is of course possible that the Lance in the other was a stronger camper than this one, but I don't really think so It is curious that the jack in both campers apparently gave way at exactly the same point just below the bracket. Mont at Stablelift has told me he has photos of at least 150 jack failures similar to this one, he would not say which on the 3 brands, or how many of each. That tells me that camper jacks in general are a hazard under certain circumstances. I suppose I could say everyone, including myself, should have a stable lift, but IMO they are rather unsightly and a pain if you go off road. I am sure camper jacks are OK 99.9% of the time, but it is also obvious to me that they are something that should be constantly inspected, and everyone should probably take more care than they do when loading & unloading to ensure the jacks operate evenly and you are on solid level ground. I wish i knew if the other 2 brands have had similar accidents. I am not trying to pick on Atwood, but having come across 3 accidents involving them you cannot blame me for being suspicious that it is more than coincidence. Part to the reason for posting this is I hope they see this & take steps to maybe increase the gauge of their tubing or reinforce the area under the brackets. That maybe applies to all 3 brands. I am sure all of us would rather pay an extra hundred bucks a jack to have a stronger ones that cannot bend like this. I am going to ask Gordon at TC mag if he can find out what the gauge of metal is in all 3 brands. I personally have Riecos's & have heard of no incidents with them, but then again I don't have access to stats, only what I have seen myself or heard of. I am definitely a lot more cautious these days removing my camper which is fairly heavy. That is another point, I am wondering if jack technology is keeping up with the heavier campers that appear to be out there, or maybe manufacturers are not fitting strong enough models to their campers. Just dividing the weight by four and assuming that is the capacity of jack you should install is not good enough. Everyone knows that you always have situations where the camper weight is on 3 of them since they do not retract evenly.
BTW I have 2 photo's now of the one in Mexico being put back on the truck after the truck bed was fixed. he took it to Lance to be repaired, cost about $2k, covered by Mexican insurance, the truck was covered also. He is now getting a stable lift installed.
Bob
Seacraft Skipper
"Semper Paratus"
2003 GMC 2500HD 4X4 ExCab L/b Air lift A/B.
2002 Lance Lite 915.
1972 20ft Seacraft Sport Fish.
Seacraft Skipper wrote:
Just looking at the pictures, the truck is a dually. Do the swing out brackets on the front jacks look swung out to you?
Bob
Just looking at the pictures, the truck is a dually. Do the swing out brackets on the front jacks look swung out to you?
Bob
Yes they are.
2008 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD 4x4 SRW - 2007 Lance 1055 - Torklift Tiedowns, Stableloads, Derringers, Pigtail - Hellwig Anti-Sway Bar - Rickson 19.5" wheels - Michelin XRV tires - Lance Cabover shocks, 2003 Keystone Laredo 29BH
causing the camper the camper to piviot falling forward because that is where most of the weight is and thus pulling the rear jack off in the direction it did.
2006 3000SL26 Bigfoot Class C
320 Watts Solar With Bluesky 2000 Regulator
Four 6volt U2200 Batteries
2000 Watt PSW Magnum Inverter
I think I was clear that the title of the thread was misleading. As far as Beddows being able to post I don't have anything against him. He could have chosen a better title.
There are many possibilities as to why this incident happened. Fortunately no one was injured or killed. I personally do not like the stability of the four toothpicks holding up the TC. I agree with a previous post that the material in the jacks have not kept up with the weights of the TCs. I was motivated to buy my Stable-Lift, when I was loading my 4000 pound TC in the wind, with the four jack system.
My ugly Stable-Lift has hit two boulders, and it only scratched the powder coat. It does not wobble like a new born calf, when it raises the TC in the wind. Because the lift points are under the wings, it will not, and cannot tear off like the jacks in the photo. I believe if you backed into the front part of the lift, it would simply push the entire TC backwards, using the "hoop" as a skid. I do find it interesting that many are quick to challenge weights and tires, but are silent on the jacks, other than say the Stable-Lift is ugly.
If you are of the belief this could not happen to your jacks because they are not Atwood's, or your TC is not as heavy, you are even at a greater risk. All it takes is soft ground, especially with a soft breeze. You want to use your TC off the truck on the jacks, think about it carefully. I really think using the TC off the truck, on the jacks put people at risk of injury.
Wayne
Ed and Fran
2005 F-350 Lariat Xcab DRW 6.0 Diesel
2006 Lance 1191
TimH
iwon415 wrote:
Why are the tie downs still on the camper? Looks like operator error.
TimH
Why are the tie downs still on the camper? Looks like operator error.
TimH
Logically, how could the operator leave the tie downs on and pull away ???
... the camper would not be able to be lifted off the truck.
d3500ram wrote:
Logically, how could the operator leave the tie downs on and pull away ???
... the camper would not be able to be lifted off the truck.
iwon415 wrote:
Why are the tie downs still on the camper? Looks like operator error.
TimH
Why are the tie downs still on the camper? Looks like operator error.
TimH
Logically, how could the operator leave the tie downs on and pull away ???
... the camper would not be able to be lifted off the truck.
Actually, I've left the Fastguns hanging in place before and after loading.
It's not a good practice since the rear tiedowns will bump the rear fender on my truck.
It may or may not be so on the one in this photo.
2008 Arctic Fox all season 1140 model
2005 F350 6.0 dually with 102,500 miles 85% with camper on.
Bulletproof oil cooler and EGR cooler added at 100K
Eagle Cap Owners group
(once the TC fell over when I entered it when fully extended but I had not extended the rear left one...& another incident is when I backed into a low wall and the jack tore off the rear corner)
Y2K Silverado 1/2 ton...Whipple Supercharger,SuperSprings Airlifts (I know...)
97 Bigfoot 15C9.5FS ,FastGuns, 2 x 75w Solar
77 Chevy 1 Ton C30 (I love this truck)
2000 Chinook concourse (uncomfortable , badly designed rv ,must get rid of it :-( )
Neverhappy wrote:
I think I am starting to love the square design of my Happyjaks. They don't bend, I had two serious incidents & they tore the camper but no bending.
(once the TC fell over when I entered it when fully extended but I had not extended the rear left one...& another incident is when I backed into a low wall and the jack tore off the rear corner)
I think I am starting to love the square design of my Happyjaks. They don't bend, I had two serious incidents & they tore the camper but no bending.
(once the TC fell over when I entered it when fully extended but I had not extended the rear left one...& another incident is when I backed into a low wall and the jack tore off the rear corner)
There is nothing magic about square tubing, it will bend and fail just as round tubing will. In both cases the size and wall thickness of the tube, along with the applied loads are the deciding factor.
I think the underlying problem is as I noted before, TC manufacturers building TCs that are too heavy for the available jacks.
As stated failure (in this case) is probably more a factor of tube thickness.
I think about any brand jack has been tested and certified for a maximum weight under specific conditions.
We humans are the weak link in the chain.... we don't use our strongest tool... the one between our ears. It is our jobs to maintain our campers and use their components correctly.
It would surely be nice if the driver of the truck would tell us the truth about how he caused it.
Sleepy 855 St Albans, VT
I normally wouldn't know this but I read a couple of Buckminster Fuller books and he really gets into tetrahedrons with a passion. He invented the geodesic dome.
1994 Lance 990 on 1997 F350 PSD Dually "Rhino Haunches"
I always have the bed of the truck under the nose of camper when raising to load, when off loading I pull out from under the camper just enough to clear then finish lowereing. For just this reason, hoping that if I lose a jack the truck will 'catch' it.
I couldn’t hazard a guess as to what was the cause or contributing cause. I don’t see how if tie downs hadn’t been removed that the truck would have made it out from under that far. I couldn’t raise ours enough with tie downs loosely attached to attempt driving out from under. Possibly though, who knows, twisting the camper, weakening the jack, damage done, tried to get the truck out from under camper it just collapsed. Many possible scenarios.
I do see, without any contributing factors, the damage shown easily occurring from the camper rotating as it came down. That much weight- not much is going to stop it, certainly not the other jacks. It looks to me the camper rotated on the left rear jack. As high as I need to raise my camper it would travel at least that far. Why NO ONE is near our camper but me when going up or down.
Our camper Most of the weight is on front jacks, I can raise a rear jack of the ground, happens frequently if Im not carefull, never seen a front one even get light, camper twists. Point is I see anything that caused a side load on one of our front jacks (any brand jack) could lead to failure. If not the jack then the mounts. Wether just uneven ground, striking with truck, fatigue. What I did get from this post, I alwasy assumed the camper would topple or tip, but now see as the weight transfers it would indeed cause it to rotate toward failed faiure point. Maybe I need to give my neighbors garage a wider berth
At any rate, what ever the cause, i feel for the owner of this rig.
Mark
I do not know this Beddows fellow, but his topic under any circumstance is misleading. I have had NO problems with my Atwoods. I believe that they are the best available.
2006 F-350 S/C 6.0 DRW 4x4 3.73, Airlift,Energy Suspension bump stops. 2005 Lance Max 981,Polar Cub a/c, both awnings, EU2000, Yakima box.
http://truckntravels.blogspot.com/
Get in shape America - walk, run, paddle or ride a bike!
Ugly is in the eyes of the beholder. This individual might just rethink 'ugly' as it relates to jacks and Stable Lifts. Before I got the truck bed repaired or replaced with another factory bed, I would make 'lemondade out the lemons' and get a nice aluminum flat bed with storage boxes.....and maybe the Stable Lift.
- Yes, "brown stuff" sometimes just happens, even when you do everything correct, however it is all too common for someone to do something careless or stupid and then try to blame the results on an inanimate object.
- The lighter the camper, the less stress on the jacks and the less likelihood of a failure, even if there is a latent defect in one of the jacks.
- Use of a TC off truck is entirely safe and supported by pretty much all of the TC manufacturers, but you do need to lower the camper / jacks to the lowest level immediately after unloading. I also put a couple of the small AL tripod jacks under the front corners of the camper and snug them up which helps to reduce wiggle and side loads on the front jacks which normally are the longest and have the most leverage twisting against the mounts.
- The StableLift system is bulky and somewhat heavy at a minimum. "Ugly" may not be the best term, but they don't look particularly good unless painted to match the truck.
- I believe that part of the jack issue is that TC manufacturers are making TCs that are too heavy for the jacks currently on the market, and the jack manufacturers don't seem to have stepped up to offer a more suitable product. Most of the TC jacks are rated for about 2,000# I believe, and since tripoding on three jacks is inevitable during any lift, three jacks need to handle the load safely. A 5,000#+ camper resting on three 2,000# rated jacks just doesn't have enough safety margin. We need some 4k-5k rated jacks with larger heavier wall square tubes, and longer bodies that attach to the TC at two points to eliminate twisting loads on a single mount point. These heavy TCs should also have at a minimum a full length metal angle in the corners with bolted connections to the jacks, not lag screws.
2008 Ford F-250 Crew-Cab w/ Camper Package
6.8L V-10 / 5 Speed TorqShift / 4.10 Rear
Ride- Rites / Stable- Loads / TorkLift Tie Downs / Fast Guns
2011 Lance 830
.JPG)
From the first set of pictures I see one bent jack and three perfectly straight jacks that are completely torn from the camper, mounts intact.
The idea that the camper was just sitting there and suddenly, for no apparent reason, decided to collapse is not easy for me to believe.
Snow River TC wrote:
First picture looks like a jack AND camper mounting failure to me!
Second and third pictures are CAMPER mounting point failures. The jacks are not damaged as shown in the pictures.
On any camper WHAT should fail first jack or the jack mounting point of the camper????
I think the pictures show weak jack mounting points on the camper and pretty good jacks!
Lots of Stuff wrote:
On any camper WHAT should fail first jack or the jack mounting point of the camper????
On any camper WHAT should fail first jack or the jack mounting point of the camper????
I don't think it was either one. I've seen a lot of photos of TC's flopped on their sides, but none have looked remotely like that. From all the damage, I'm betting on either a meteor strike and/or propane leak.
Brad
Internet forums only exist to serve their members; never the other way around.
1996 Lance 500 and 2006 F-350 PSD 4X4 DRW
Our Truck Camper Photos
'01 Dodge 3500 CTD, Lance 1121, Air Bags, Rancho 9000, All Wheels Under Power When Needed, A Few Engine Mods For Increased HP
Burning Grease, 800 ft/lbs. of torque from something you throw away.
Raften wrote:
... I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
No way, my Bigfoot has been with me all the time.... I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
Wayne
Reddog1 wrote:
Wayne
Raften wrote:
... I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
No way, my Bigfoot has been with me all the time.... I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
Wayne
So you think but it does hang out in a bad neighborhood while you are away. I hear those Bigfoots are sneaky and elusive.
Raften wrote:
Perhaps we should put the thread to rest. Whatever the cause of the mess is between the TC'er and his/her insurance company. Considering the location of the accident I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
Perhaps we should put the thread to rest. Whatever the cause of the mess is between the TC'er and his/her insurance company. Considering the location of the accident I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
Why didn't we think of that
Hey everybody... Raften says for us to quit pondering it.
Raften wrote:
Perhaps we should put the thread to rest. Whatever the cause of the mess is between the TC'er and his/her insurance company. Considering the location of the accident I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
Perhaps we should put the thread to rest. Whatever the cause of the mess is between the TC'er and his/her insurance company. Considering the location of the accident I am inclined to think it was a Big Foot scratching his/her back against the jack leg.
This is an incredibly ridiculous statement!
I for one would like to know more about the possible causes of the mishap. If there is a real problem and it is just settled "between the TC'er and his/her insurance company" then it is no better than sweeping it under the rug.
I live and learn vicariously through others and this thread is no exception. The more we respectfully discuss issues related to RV'ing, the more we learn.
If you feel the need to "put this thread to rest" then I submit you refrain from reading it... as for the rest of us, let us gain from the post.
I was in Mexico last week when I saw a guy unloading his camper when one of his rear jacks failed.
Brad
BradW wrote:
I was in Mexico last week when I saw a guy unloading his camper when one of his rear jacks failed.
Brad
I was in Mexico last week when I saw a guy unloading his camper when one of his rear jacks failed.
Brad
Well I don't think it was the rear jack that failed, rather it was the fault of the garbage can. Being a structural engineer and seeing how the one piece of wood is laying up against the bush by the right rear of the camper there is no doubt that the garbage can caused it all, now if the can had been turned around then I doubt it would have happened
2004.5 Chevy 3500 CC D/A DRW
2002 Lance
ryoung
The front left jack is bent, all the other are straight. The reasonable assumption is that the left front buckled, and as the leg collapsed, the TC pivoted on the bent leg, placing a lateral load on the other three, destructively removing them from the TC.
Once the motion started, the resulting damaged legs provided less resistance to the motion, it accelerated until making contact with the pickup truck.
The ladder in the back is an optical illusion. The camera angle hides the position of the lower mount point of the ladder. As the leg was pulled to the rear, the lower edge stayed with the leg as it was moved to the rear and upward. (Look at that element compared to the door threshold.)
That leaves us with how could the front leg buckle that way? Without seeing a picture of the ground where that leg was planted we can only surmise one of two events, the leg got shorter, or it sunk into the ground.
In either case, the load would have shifted more weight onto the leg and as it got shorter, the load would not have been centered over the leg foot, but at an angle. Once the support got far enough outside of the leg, it buckled.
I don't see it any more diffcult that soft soil under the front left leg (operator error), or a shortening of the support leg (mechanical failure).
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DIYGuy wrote:
Observations for those interested.
The front left jack is bent, all the other are straight. The reasonable assumption is that the left front buckled, and as the leg collapsed, the TC pivoted on the bent leg, placing a lateral load on the other three, destructively removing them from the TC.
Once the motion started, the resulting damaged legs provided less resistance to the motion, it accelerated until making contact with the pickup truck.
The ladder in the back is an optical illusion. The camera angle hides the position of the lower mount point of the ladder. As the leg was pulled to the rear, the lower edge stayed with the leg as it was moved to the rear and upward. (Look at that element compared to the door threshold.)
That leaves us with how could the front leg buckle that way? Without seeing a picture of the ground where that leg was planted we can only surmise one of two events, the leg got shorter, or it sunk into the ground.
In either case, the load would have shifted more weight onto the leg and as it got shorter, the load would not have been centered over the leg foot, but at an angle. Once the support got far enough outside of the leg, it buckled.
I don't see it any more diffcult that soft soil under the front left leg (operator error), or a shortening of the support leg (mechanical failure
Observations for those interested.
The front left jack is bent, all the other are straight. The reasonable assumption is that the left front buckled, and as the leg collapsed, the TC pivoted on the bent leg, placing a lateral load on the other three, destructively removing them from the TC.
Once the motion started, the resulting damaged legs provided less resistance to the motion, it accelerated until making contact with the pickup truck.
The ladder in the back is an optical illusion. The camera angle hides the position of the lower mount point of the ladder. As the leg was pulled to the rear, the lower edge stayed with the leg as it was moved to the rear and upward. (Look at that element compared to the door threshold.)
That leaves us with how could the front leg buckle that way? Without seeing a picture of the ground where that leg was planted we can only surmise one of two events, the leg got shorter, or it sunk into the ground.
In either case, the load would have shifted more weight onto the leg and as it got shorter, the load would not have been centered over the leg foot, but at an angle. Once the support got far enough outside of the leg, it buckled.
I don't see it any more diffcult that soft soil under the front left leg (operator error), or a shortening of the support leg (mechanical failure
Good theory, but I would have thought that if the left front leg collapsed for either reason you give, then the weight on the opposite corner leg, (right rear), would be reduced. With the left front down, the weight would be distributed more on the right front and left rear legs. Hence the right rear leg, would just have dragged through the soil. The missing piece is that there is no picture of the right front leg.
ryoung
* This post was edited 06/29/10 06:11am by ryoung *
I saw the same thing happen to my friends tc only the RR jack bent the same way causing the tc to tip over to the rearward right, into his shed . His front jacks sustained damage in the same direction as the rear jacks in this posters photo .
What caused the jack to bend ? Over a period of time the jack mounting plate leaked water into the corner framework causing the wood frame to rot. The lag screws ripped out, the jack tube then bent causing the camper to tip in the direction of the now broken jack . Upon inspecting the lag screws we noticed rust on the threads that should not have been there. The camper was being stored at the time of occurrence , there was no movement on his part, it happened all on it's own , possibly helped by a gust of wind.
In his case the ground was solid and the jacks had large wooden pads to support the feet . When we inspected the framework in the faulty corner, it was in fact rotted by water intrusion. The rot was at the level of the jack plate, no higher , it didn't come from above and drip down to a low point. I noticed in this photo, it appears that some caulk was added along the bottom seam near the jack plate. The owner may have had a prior indication of water damage and thought it was entering along that seam not paying attention to the jack plate or the lag screws which 'no not' appear to be caulked .
Since that occurred to my friend and by the advice of others on this forum i now caulk my jack plates as well as the heads of the lag screws. I think it is an important step for anyone that owns a tc . I would like to say thank you to the people who contribute to this forum.
The last thing anyone needs is to have a 4000# box fall over and cause a serious or fatal injury to someone. Maybe that's one of the reasons why some CG owners do not allow campers to be taken off trucks . Not all tc owners try to maintain them as we do . Scary isn't it ? Stay safe to all, Bob .
ryoung wrote:
Good theory, but I would have thought that if the left front leg collapsed for either reason you give, then the weight on the opposite corner leg, (right rear), would be reduced. With the left front down, the weight would be distributed more on the right front and left rear legs. Hence the right rear leg, would just have dragged through the soil. The missing piece is that there is no picture of the right front leg.
ryoung
Good theory, but I would have thought that if the left front leg collapsed for either reason you give, then the weight on the opposite corner leg, (right rear), would be reduced. With the left front down, the weight would be distributed more on the right front and left rear legs. Hence the right rear leg, would just have dragged through the soil. The missing piece is that there is no picture of the right front leg.
ryoung
No its there- Pic of right front is last one in group
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AnEv942 wrote:
No its there- Pic of right front is last one in group
No its there- Pic of right front is last one in group
Thanks for pointing this out. I'll have to re-think this one.
ryoung
Or am I missing something?
I'm no engineer but even I can see a couple of points to work on. A removable heavy duty support rod even on the swing outs would not be a bad start. Perhaps a self extending rod with lock-in increments on it from the center to the side so as to provide support when lifting. As the camper goes up the rod clicks its way down. If you can visualize what I mean. The stablelift is an amazing product but, $3000.00 cost, $400.00 shipping, self installation if you don't want to go to Montana, 400 lbs weight on top of your $30,000.00 purchase and it is'nt the prettiest thing out there. I think we should join forces and force this issue, there's enough of us to get some ones attention. Joe
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* This post was last edited 10/15/10 10:31pm by KKELLER14K *
There is nothing (IMO) that could have prevented the collapse of that and those jacks, and, connections thereto and resultant seemingly disastrous rear wall collapse (I also looked at numerous photos of truck campers that had rolled, been in accidents and had suffered jack(s) letting go posted here over the years as a comparison). Whether the camper was nudged, blown, through telekinesis or otherwise, subjected to S or P waves from an earthquake or swallowed in part by unstable clay was (nearly) irrelevant. That sucker was a disaster waiting to happen. Point finale.
Silver-
* This post was edited 10/14/10 07:52pm by KKELLER14K *
Lucky I had a place to mount the support to.
ryoung wrote:
I don't see this as an Atwood jack failure, but a structure failure to which the jacks were mounted. It appears the initial failure was in the mounting points. Just my guess.
What caused the failure of the mounts? If he left the front left tie down hanging from the camper, it could have caught the corner of the truck bumper, dragging the camper forward as the condition of the right rear jack suggests.
ryoung
I don't see this as an Atwood jack failure, but a structure failure to which the jacks were mounted. It appears the initial failure was in the mounting points. Just my guess.
What caused the failure of the mounts? If he left the front left tie down hanging from the camper, it could have caught the corner of the truck bumper, dragging the camper forward as the condition of the right rear jack suggests.
ryoung
I agree, looks like the mounting failed first which led to the post bending. In my opinion the verticle force (weight) of the camper would never be enough to bend the pipe (post) in that manner, something else happened here.
Any way getting back to the talked to death analysis of the fallen camper.
#1 There's more wood rot on this camper than I've ever seen. Picture #4 {from the top} shows that the wall itself failed; The jack mount, and the jack itself did not fail, It pulled rite of the frame of the rotted camper in a perfectly assembled piece. I mean you can see the entire rear panel is rotted. The jack itself came off in one complete unharmed piece.
#2 The two rear jacks did not slide forward at all. With the frame of the camper giving way the passenger side of the camper simply hit the ground and forced the front same side jack to buckle. All 5100 lbs pushed forward.
#3 Look at the way the truck was hit. The camper cabover corner landed inside the truck bed. Then the weight of the camper forced the other side front jack to buckle in exactly the direction the weight is continuing to fall, forward. With the other jack buckled, the weight shifts. Pulling the cabover out and down from the inside of the truck bed, settling in the truck bed pushing the truck side wall down and out. Not down and in.
He simply had the truck off to one side while moving the plate. It picked that exact time to fail. He's lucky he did not get crushed.
#4 One more thing in the photos you can see where there is putty or caulk over some of the seems. This amount of rot started long ago. There was no fault here. The camper simply has seen a better day.
Thats my two sense. Thanks guys, Big Joe
PS, I do the same thing with my plate removal, Not any more! And the gang will stay far away while loading and unloading.
* This post was edited 10/11/10 06:31pm by lawndude *
Thanks,
3 tons
Snow River TC wrote:
Interesting the rear step is down. I suspect either the camper was in use with the legs extended, resulting in fatigue/damage from improper use. Or we are not getting the complete story.
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kcabpilot wrote:
Not to be nit-picky but I'm pretty sure the strongest structure is a tetrahedron which is the only possible arrangement of four equidistant points in 3-dimensional space.
I normally wouldn't know this but I read a couple of Buckminster Fuller books and he really gets into tetrahedrons with a passion. He invented the geodesic dome.
Not to be nit-picky but I'm pretty sure the strongest structure is a tetrahedron which is the only possible arrangement of four equidistant points in 3-dimensional space.
I normally wouldn't know this but I read a couple of Buckminster Fuller books and he really gets into tetrahedrons with a passion. He invented the geodesic dome.
a tetrahedron is the hardest to turn over... but not the strongest.
I know about Bucky... I bought copies of all of his patents many years ago.
I built a 30 foot diameter geodisic dome in 1974, It was an icosahedron... with each face subdivided by 5 panels on an edge. I truncated it approx 5/8 ths of the way down from the apex. BTW, An icosahedron has 12 verticies.
I'd be happy to post pictures when we return home in a few more months.
All of that aside... a sphere is the stronest object of all. Even the shortest straight edge is a weakness... even on an atomic level.
(BTW... just for general info.... a dodecahedron looks like a soccor ball)
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ryoung wrote:
Good theory, but I would have thought that if the left front leg collapsed for either reason you give, then the weight on the opposite corner leg, (right rear), would be reduced. With the left front down, the weight would be distributed more on the right front and left rear legs. Hence the right rear leg, would just have dragged through the soil. The missing piece is that there is no picture of the right front leg.
ryoung
Good theory, but I would have thought that if the left front leg collapsed for either reason you give, then the weight on the opposite corner leg, (right rear), would be reduced. With the left front down, the weight would be distributed more on the right front and left rear legs. Hence the right rear leg, would just have dragged through the soil. The missing piece is that there is no picture of the right front leg.
ryoung
I think the pictures show that the right front and left rear legs were torn out. When those failed, weight and motion was shifted to the right rear leg, which then was pulled out.
In the picture of the rear of the truck, the right front leg is partially visible as point out at ~45 degrees from the body, which would be consistant with forces experienced and the left front buckled and the rig moved to the left.
As the rig tipped, the CG would have shifted toward the collapsing leg as it first pivoted. It is possible that the right front pulled away from the body simultaneous to the buckling of the left front.
All of the photographic evidence is still consistant with a shortening of the left front leg as the initial event.
Great picture. It looks like about the only thing that did not fail are the jacks (at least the ones in the front).