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Topic: Generator and EMS

Posted By: kampinguru on 08/03/10 06:26am

Well I decided to do a little testing this weekend with the gernnies and the EMS. I didn't have electricity anyway so thought I would play around. I reported a couple of weeks ago that I could run my 15K A/C with one Honda EU2000i generator and this worked well. After I tested that, I installed a Progressive Industries 30 amp EMS, but did not retest the A/C with the genny. This weekend, I hooked both generators in parallel and proceeded to test. Right off the bat, the EMS through a E2 code Open Ground and cut the power to the RV. Due to the fact that there is no ground on the generator, I had to bypass the EMS when running on the generator. I tried to run the generators on eco throttle and start the A/C and this threw both gennies into an overload state and they shut down. I think that this might have been due to the fact that the converter was charging the batteries as well so there was not much power left to start the A/C. I can still start the A/C with one generator but I cannot run with the EMS. This is not what I hoped would happen as I would like the EMS to protect the RV from surge when running on the generator as well. Oh well. At least I can camp.


2000 F-250 S/B 4X4
2005 Cedar Creek 30RLBS
Pullrite Superglide 16K



Posted By: Ferndale on 08/03/10 07:10am

I assume you are using a plug-in EMS, correct? So you are saying that you can run the rig on your gen, just not the a/c?

kampinguru wrote:

Well I decided to do a little testing this weekend with the gernnies and the EMS. I didn't have electricity anyway so thought I would play around. I reported a couple of weeks ago that I could run my 15K A/C with one Honda EU2000i generator and this worked well. After I tested that, I installed a Progressive Industries 30 amp EMS, but did not retest the A/C with the genny. This weekend, I hooked both generators in parallel and proceeded to test. Right off the bat, the EMS through a E2 code Open Ground and cut the power to the RV. Due to the fact that there is no ground on the generator, I had to bypass the EMS when running on the generator. I tried to run the generators on eco throttle and start the A/C and this threw both gennies into an overload state and they shut down. I think that this might have been due to the fact that the converter was charging the batteries as well so there was not much power left to start the A/C. I can still start the A/C with one generator but I cannot run with the EMS. This is not what I hoped would happen as I would like the EMS to protect the RV from surge when running on the generator as well. Oh well. At least I can camp.



2008 Ford F-250 6.4 Diesel, Long Bed, 4x4 & 2010 Keystone Cougar 292 RKS
U.S. Navy Retired
1962-1983


Posted By: Tom N on 08/03/10 07:27am

By EMS do you mean an Energy Management System or a surge protector. There is a huge difference.


Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA · W3TLN · FMCA 335149 · Mystic Knights of the Sea
2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24 chassis, no chassis mods needed · 2013 Honda Accord EX-L · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L




Posted By: kampinguru on 08/03/10 08:09am

I am running a hardwired EMS system with the remote display. http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw30c.htm. This provides surge protection as well as a miriad of other protections. I can run everything on the trailer from the two generators paralleled together, but I have to disable the EMS in order to do it otherwise I get a E2 error "Open Ground". The A/C works fine, but I cannot run the generators on eco-throttle when using the A/C. I can run on eco-throttle for all the other applications.


Posted By: Ferndale on 08/03/10 09:13am

From what you are saying the hardwired unit can be disabled when you switch to the generator. I am looking to install the same unit you have and also have a Honda 2000i Companion. Is it necessary to install some kind of bypass switch or can it be disabled right on the EMS?


kampinguru wrote:

I am running a hardwired EMS system with the remote display. http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw30c.htm. This provides surge protection as well as a miriad of other protections. I can run everything on the trailer from the two generators paralleled together, but I have to disable the EMS in order to do it otherwise I get a E2 error "Open Ground". The A/C works fine, but I cannot run the generators on eco-throttle when using the A/C. I can run on eco-throttle for all the other applications.



Posted By: CA Traveler on 08/06/10 10:43am

Actually there is nothing to fix as the gens use an floating ground design and the EMS is detecting that as an open ground.

If you're going to continue with those gens then you could rewire the EMS for shore power only or if you prefer continue to use the bypass switch.

* This post was edited 08/06/10 11:00am by CA Traveler *


2009 Holiday Rambler 42 Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
2004 Honda CR-V

Bob



Posted By: CA Traveler on 08/06/10 11:06am

Quote:

When I ordered it I talked to the tech support and they told me to connect the ground and the neutral together.
Excatly where did you make this connection? Hopefully not for the entire rig when on shore power.


Posted By: tubular031 on 08/06/10 11:09am

when I ordered it from progressive they made me an adapter. its a 10 inch pigtail that I hook on the shore cord and then plug into the gen. I think they charged me something like $10 for it with my order.

Very helpful people at progressive.






Veggie powered 01 F350 CCLB SRW "Tiny"
04 Cedar Creek 5th



Posted By: pritch272 on 08/06/10 04:01am

tubular031 wrote:

I have one of these. When I ordered it I talked to the tech support and they told me to connect the ground and the neutral together. This makes my EMS happy when running on my little champ gen.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER bypass the EMS. figure why its unhappy and fix that. When running on a gen its so easy for them to go high or low on power or freq. NEVER bypass the EMS!!!


My thoughts exactly.


2007 Keystone Laredo 29RL, 2000 Ford F250 7.3 PSD, Firestone bags, Pressure Pro, 16" Michelin XPS Ribs, MorRyde Pin Box, Dexter EZ-Flex, PI EMS-HW30C, Dirt Devil CV950 Central Vacuum, 2000W AllPower by Kipor, 4000/3500W Champion C46540



Posted By: tubular031 on 08/05/10 12:58pm

I have one of these. When I ordered it I talked to the tech support and they told me to connect the ground and the neutral together. This makes my EMS happy when running on my little champ gen.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER bypass the EMS. figure why its unhappy and fix that. When running on a gen its so easy for them to go high or low on power or freq. NEVER bypass the EMS!!!


Posted By: kampinguru on 08/04/10 06:22am

Progressive industries calls the box that I have installed an EMS. Here is the link. http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw30c.htm. As far as I know, this is a true EMS system rather than just a line monitor. Maybe I am wrong. The bypass switch is on the little remote dispay unit, not the main unit. I have the remote installed beside the main unit anyway. I have read that you dont need the EMS when running off a Honda as the power is pretty pure from them. I would rather not mess with bonding the ground and the neutral on the generator and possibly messing something up, so I have chosen to bypass the EMS when I am running on the generator.


Posted By: Ferndale on 08/03/10 04:14pm

Is that switch on the remote or on the device? Guess that would influence where I install it.


Posted By: pritch272 on 08/03/10 04:18pm

kampinguru-

see this thread.


Posted By: wa8yxm on 08/03/10 05:11pm

I too am inclined to think you have confused EMS with Power guard/surge protector.

A Power line monitor WILL show open ground when running on a portable generator.. This is normal, and it's not in the least bit dangerous, You will either have to override it or bypass it, it is not needed with the Honda EU series generators anyway so don't use it.


Home is where I park it.
Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377



Posted By: kampinguru on 08/03/10 09:33am

There is a switch right on the display unit that allows you to turn it off.


Posted By: Wayne Dohnal on 08/06/10 03:07pm

Quote:

be aware that shorting the neutral and ground may cause the gen to fail. I've read that the Honda is one of those and perhaps someone else can confirm.
Another bogus rumor. If it were true, the generator would fail whenever properly connected to a premises for emergency power. If that happened I'll bet a nickle that word of it would spread pretty quickly. Other than that detail, I and many others have run a Honda eu-series generator with a conductor bonded to the generator frame with no ill effects. (Sorry about the obscure terminology, but these generators do not have a neutral, and do not provide a ground).


2009 Fleetwood Icon 24A
Honda Fit dinghy with US Gear brake system
LinkPro battery monitor - EU2000i generator


Posted By: CA Traveler on 08/06/10 11:20am

Good gen adapter and allows the PI EMS to monitor the gen. For others be aware that shorting the neutral and ground may cause the gen to fail. I've read that the Honda is one of those and perhaps someone else can confirm.


Posted By: Ferndale on 08/06/10 11:31am

Are you using this with a Honda generator?

tubular031 wrote:

when I ordered it from progressive they made me an adapter. its a 10 inch pigtail that I hook on the shore cord and then plug into the gen. I think they charged me something like $10 for it with my order.

Very helpful people at progressive.






Posted By: tubular031 on 08/06/10 11:34am

I have a champion 3500 watt from tractor supply. Hondas are not worth it to me since I hardly use it. not worth the added cost in my world.


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