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Topic: LT235/85/16 G-rated tire EXPLODED!

Posted By: Chris on 09/11/10 09:32pm

Tireman9 wrote:

jimmyfred wrote:

...........Does anyone know the physical weight of the GY 614's ? The 235\xxxxx greenball G rated tires weigh about 45 pounds each ! The Michelin XPS Rib 235\85R16 weighs in at 54 pounds with VERY FEW reported blowouts or other problems ! I'll bet the GY614's weigh as much as the Michelin XPS Rib tire .
...........My point is , is that there is direct correlation between tire weight and the weight carrying capacity of THAT tire ! , jf


I have never seen convincing hard data that heavier tires are necessarily "better". A significant portion of a tire's weight is the tread rubber so a heavy tread tire built on the identical carcas of a standard rib tire will definately weigh more.
A Larger tire will also weigh more.
The following took less than 10 min to assemble using the Internet.

Michelin LT235/85R16 LRE is 15/32's and 32.2 OD rated 3042# @ 80
Greenball LT235/85R16 LRG is 12/32's 31.7 OD rated 3760# @ ? psi
Goodyear LT 235/85R16 LRG is 12/32's 30.7 OD rated 3750# @ 110 psi

Clearly a heavy tread, larger tire will be heavier so tire weights can not be used to compare tire performance. Also I do not know how one would compare the quality of a LRE vs a LRG as the applications are not the same.

One thing to remember is that thicker rubber tire will almost always run hotter. Hotter is almost always worse for tire durability.


So tell us why the all steel XPS RIB runs so cool with all that extra rubber. Or is it the flexing in tires like ST's that causes the heat? Oh yeah, I think the GY G614 weighs 61 lbs. But weight does not matter, right? Coolaid anyone?

The Greenball is not a steel carcass tire like the GY G614 and is not even close to being in the same league. In LRE the Bridgestone Duravis R250 is the only other tire in the same league as the XPS RIB.

When will you omit that cheap tires are not the equal of quality tires? You of all people should understand the difference.

Chris

* This post was edited 09/11/10 09:42pm by Chris *


My Rig
2001.5 2500 STD CAB AUTO SLT 4x4, CTD 4:10's, Bomb'd to Tow
2005 Cardinal 29WBLX.


Posted By: up2nogood on 09/11/10 10:05pm

Fordman6 wrote:

In my opinion your wasting your money. I have the exact same rig as you except mine is a 2008 and I've weighed it many times with the combined trailer axle weight never exceeding 12000 lbs. You stated earlier that your rig weighted 14600 lbs. which is about the same as mine. I would be surprised if you were loading your tires to more than 3000 lbs. each, which is far below the 3700 lb. max rating of a G range tire. Your tire issues weren't due to the fact that they were G range tires, they were because of junk Chinese tires that Forest River put on your rig. I've already been down that road with my previous rig and vowed that I would never own another set of Chinese tires. You may remember some of the Kenda tire horror stories from numerous previous posts. Anyway when I bought this rig I demanded that the dealer swap out the Chinese ST tires and I specified the GY G614RSTs because of high praise from several friends that owned them and they were made in the USA. The dealer replaced all five tires with new GYs and I've not had a single issue with them. I agree the 17.5 wheels and H range tires would be sweet, but total overkill as far as I'm concerned. Unless you got money to burn, you don't need that much safety margin, you've got plenty of safety margin with a G range tire.




I agree, 17.5 on a 15-16K GVWR is totally a waste of money, the most on the tires would be around 13K, thats if the trailer is loaded to capacity. IMO I would not like that stiff of tire on something that will not load the tires. I can't see bouncing around on that stiff of tire, IMO that cannot do the trailer any good. A tire that will handle 4800 lbs, and loading it with 3000 or less,what would be the point, when a G rated G614 would get the job done. I nearly pulled the trigger on 17.5 until I came to my senses, and went with the G614's


Posted By: tnance on 09/12/10 05:54am

Tireman9 asked:

Quote:

tnance could you provide the complete size designation, brand and tire line info of the 16" and 17.5" tires?


It has been over a year since I did the switch. Here is a link to my original post, 06/12/09. (near bottom of page)

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseac........d/22857932/gotomsg/22861176.cfm#22861176

Fordman6 and up2nogood.

If you read my original post you will see that the load on my G614’s were far below the maximum of 3,750 lbs.
The first tire that blew was only carrying 3,200 lbs. The second tire that blew was carrying 3,400 lbs.

Both tires were USA made and only two years old, inflated to 110 psi cold and had no signs of wear. Both blow outs occurred after approximately two years and 20K miles.

The ride with the new G114 17.5 H rated tires are the same because I only inflate the G114’s to 110 psi. (Pay attention to the cold inflation charts from Goodyear that I provided. (PDF link on left side of page)

http://www.goodyear.com/cfmx/web/truck/line.cfm?prodline=160807


2005 Freightliner M2 106 class 7 HDT
2004 Teton Sunrise Grand
Jeep Wrangler toad

...PICTURES...



Posted By: Denny & Jami on 09/12/10 07:22am

agree, 17.5 on a 15-16K GVWR is totally a waste of money, the most on the tires would be around 13K, thats if the trailer is loaded to capacity. IMO I would not like that stiff of tire on something that will not load the tires. I can't see bouncing around on that stiff of tire, IMO that cannot do the trailer any good. A tire that will handle 4800 lbs, and loading it with 3000 or less,what would be the point, when a G rated G614 would get the job done. I nearly pulled the trigger on 17.5 until I came to my senses, and went with the G614's

This is what I have learned about the G6214 tire on trailers between 15-16K weight class. Our trailer runs between 15.6 and 16K and it came with 614s in 3/03 when it was new. We retired in August of 06 and the trailer was always stored in a building when not in use so exposure to sun was not a problem. In 04/07 on our way back to our home base one of the treads pealed off outside of Reno (this right after I was telling everybody how great this tires where). We replaced all 4 because the one in front of it was also showing sighs of doing the same thing, they only had between 22 to 24K of them. In the spring of 08 we where at a RV Rally and there where four trailers all the same weight class and brand all with G614 tires, they had original tires 1 to 2 years old and we where on are second set, they all thought the 614 was a great tire I thought they where junk. Fast forward to this spring to another Rally and none of us had 614s on our trailers because of tread separation and blowouts, 3 of us had 17.5s and one had another brand of G tire. All the tires started failing in the 20K range that's also where we lost our second set. There was also 2 other trailers of the same weight class that had 17.5s because the 614 tires they had failed. That's not a very good track record for 15-16K trailers. They are all a extended and fulltime rvers so the miles do pile up fast and that's why I think they failed in the 2 to 3 year range. Now the ones at the Rally's that have lighter trailers and upgraded to 614 from E tires don't seem to be having the problems that the heavier trailers are it's when they are run closer to their rated load rating. I run our 17.5 tires at the full 125 psi and we can not tell any difference in the ride over the 614.

Denny


2013 F350 SC DRW 6.2 V8 4.30 gears Air Lifts
2003 HitchHiker Premier 35FKTG 215/75/17.5 Sumitomo tires


Posted By: sasha_j on 09/12/10 07:51am

Thanks Denny and Tnance. From a full timers perspective, the 17.5's make sense, even for our 16K GVWR rig


Our Web Site

1999 Ford F450 7.3 PSD CC 4x2, Roll-A-Long Hauler Bed, 15,000 GVWR, 26,000 GCVWR, PacBrake PBRX, AIRSAFE 25K Air hitch & KSH 80 Gal Aux Tank/Tool Box

2006 FR Sandpiper Sport F37 Toyhauler, 16K GVWR, 7K axles, 17.5" Wheels, 600W Solar



Posted By: NC Hauler on 09/12/10 03:01am

Chris wrote:

Tireman9 wrote:

jimmyfred wrote:

...........Does anyone know the physical weight of the GY 614's ? The 235\xxxxx greenball G rated tires weigh about 45 pounds each ! The Michelin XPS Rib 235\85R16 weighs in at 54 pounds with VERY FEW reported blowouts or other problems ! I'll bet the GY614's weigh as much as the Michelin XPS Rib tire .
...........My point is , is that there is direct correlation between tire weight and the weight carrying capacity of THAT tire ! , jf


I have never seen convincing hard data that heavier tires are necessarily "better". A significant portion of a tire's weight is the tread rubber so a heavy tread tire built on the identical carcas of a standard rib tire will definately weigh more.
A Larger tire will also weigh more.
The following took less than 10 min to assemble using the Internet.

Michelin LT235/85R16 LRE is 15/32's and 32.2 OD rated 3042# @ 80
Greenball LT235/85R16 LRG is 12/32's 31.7 OD rated 3760# @ ? psi
Goodyear LT 235/85R16 LRG is 12/32's 30.7 OD rated 3750# @ 110 psi

Clearly a heavy tread, larger tire will be heavier so tire weights can not be used to compare tire performance. Also I do not know how one would compare the quality of a LRE vs a LRG as the applications are not the same.

One thing to remember is that thicker rubber tire will almost always run hotter. Hotter is almost always worse for tire durability.


So tell us why the all steel XPS RIB runs so cool with all that extra rubber. Or is it the flexing in tires like ST's that causes the heat? Oh yeah, I think the GY G614 weighs 61 lbs. But weight does not matter, right? Coolaid anyone?

The Greenball is not a steel carcass tire like the GY G614 and is not even close to being in the same league. In LRE the Bridgestone Duravis R250 is the only other tire in the same league as the XPS RIB.

When will you omit that cheap tires are not the equal of quality tires? You of all people should understand the difference.

Chris


Chris,
I addressed this same issue in one of my last post in this thread...at the end of the post I ran a couple of things passed Tireman, but he may not have seen it or read it due to the fact it was added on as a last minute statement. It also dealt with weight of a tire, sidewall thickness and construction components in a tire. Basically stating that , from experience in the manufacturing of tires, looking at and understanding Manufacturing and Quality Control Processes, along with Failure Analysis Studies, that a heavier tire that is not overloaded or over inflated, does not equate to the tire running hot just because it is heavier, ie, your example of the XPS RIBS. In the same post I also answered the question on how much a GY G614RST tire weighed.


Jim & Kathy
2013 Dodge 3500DRW Longhorn 4X4/CC/LB/Aisin tranny/4:10/Cummins: 385HP/850TQ
06 HR Presidential Suite 37RLQ/SK3005 Satellite/Splendide XC2100/4slide/dual pane windows
2014 Jeep Compass Ltd 4X4
Boxers;Buddy& Sheba II
USAF 71-75 Nam Vet


Posted By: Chris on 09/12/10 09:23am

That is what I was going say! If one has bad experiences G614's the only option on 7k axles is to move up.

To tireman, Goodyear makes a 34-35 lb Marathon rated to 3420 lbs and the 61 lb G614 rated to 3750. Both are trailer service tires. So why such a difference in weight? One is marketed as a economical trailer tire and one as high end trailer tire. Guess which one is which! Guess which one sells for almost twice the price as the other? Chris


Posted By: Denny & Jami on 09/12/10 10:19am

Chris wrote:

That is what I was going say! If one has bad experiences G614's the only option on 7k axles is to move up.

To tireman, Goodyear makes a 34-35 lb Marathon rated to 3420 lbs and the 61 lb G614 rated to 3750. Both are trailer service tires. So why such a difference in weight? One is marketed as a economical trailer tire and one as high end trailer tire. Guess which one is which! Guess which one sells for almost twice the price as the other? Chris


The 614 is going to be a lot heaver because it's regroveable (not that it would ever make it that long)and the Marathon is not. I have seen the whole tread from a 614 up close and personal and it's very thick and heavy. It's also a lot lighter with the tread off when you have to load it in the back of your truck.

Denny


Posted By: NC Hauler on 09/12/10 10:36am

Denny & Jami wrote:

Chris wrote:

That is what I was going say! If one has bad experiences G614's the only option on 7k axles is to move up.

To tireman, Goodyear makes a 34-35 lb Marathon rated to 3420 lbs and the 61 lb G614 rated to 3750. Both are trailer service tires. So why such a difference in weight? One is marketed as a economical trailer tire and one as high end trailer tire. Guess which one is which! Guess which one sells for almost twice the price as the other? Chris


The 614 is going to be a lot heaver because it's regroveable (not that it would ever make it that long)and the Marathon is not. I have seen the whole tread from a 614 up close and personal and it's very thick and heavy. It's also a lot lighter with the tread off when you have to load it in the back of your truck.

Denny


When used on an RV, The GY G614RST is not recommended to be "re-grooved", this coming from owners manual and Goodyear themselves.

As far a "making it that long"... a lot have, it's obvious you had a really bad experience with the G614's, but that isn't the case for everyone..it's only what you assumed and told everyone 13 pages back when you stated the tire that exploded was a G614RST, and you at one time or another stated it had happened to anyone that had G614RST's...all of this being incorrect on your part.


Posted By: up2nogood on 09/12/10 11:54am

Denny & Jami wrote:

agree, 17.5 on a 15-16K GVWR is totally a waste of money, the most on the tires would be around 13K, thats if the trailer is loaded to capacity. IMO I would not like that stiff of tire on something that will not load the tires. I can't see bouncing around on that stiff of tire, IMO that cannot do the trailer any good. A tire that will handle 4800 lbs, and loading it with 3000 or less,what would be the point, when a G rated G614 would get the job done. I nearly pulled the trigger on 17.5 until I came to my senses, and went with the G614's

This is what I have learned about the G6214 tire on trailers between 15-16K weight class. Our trailer runs between 15.6 and 16K and it came with 614s in 3/03 when it was new. We retired in August of 06 and the trailer was always stored in a building when not in use so exposure to sun was not a problem. In 04/07 on our way back to our home base one of the treads pealed off outside of Reno (this right after I was telling everybody how great this tires where). We replaced all 4 because the one in front of it was also showing sighs of doing the same thing, they only had between 22 to 24K of them. In the spring of 08 we where at a RV Rally and there where four trailers all the same weight class and brand all with G614 tires, they had original tires 1 to 2 years old and we where on are second set, they all thought the 614 was a great tire I thought they where junk. Fast forward to this spring to another Rally and none of us had 614s on our trailers because of tread separation and blowouts, 3 of us had 17.5s and one had another brand of G tire. All the tires started failing in the 20K range that's also where we lost our second set. There was also 2 other trailers of the same weight class that had 17.5s because the 614 tires they had failed. That's not a very good track record for 15-16K trailers. They are all a extended and fulltime rvers so the miles do pile up fast and that's why I think they failed in the 2 to 3 year range. Now the ones at the Rally's that have lighter trailers and upgraded to 614 from E tires don't seem to be having the problems that the heavier trailers are it's when they are run closer to their rated load rating. I run our 17.5 tires at the full 125 psi and we can not tell any difference in the ride over the 614.

Denny




And the ones that run the 614 with success do not count ?? Yes your bad experience does count, but how many thousands of these tires run with success, to the few that you have reported that do not. This discussion could go on forever, you maintain they are junk, others don't. Time will tell for me, and if they fail this forum will be first to know, and also if they succeed


After reading your comments I have yet to read what kind of weight you, and the others had on the G614's ,or I may have missed it. I own a 15500 GVWR fifth wheel, the weight range you do not agree should be running G614's . My point is do you know what the others had on those tires, were there inflation maintained etc etc.


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