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Topic: LT235/85/16 G-rated tire EXPLODED!

Posted By: Tireman9 on 09/12/10 11:58am

Chris
My comment was about the over-simplified concept that a tire's weight was a reasonable measure of its load carrying capacity which I still do not believe is supported by facts.

According to info on the net.
Michelin indicates it's LT235/85R16 LRE weighs 55.8# and is capable of 3042# @ 80 psi max
Goodyear G614 LT235/85R16 LRG weighs 26kg or 57.3 # and is rated at 3,750# @ 110 psi max and 3,042@ 80psi
Bridgestone R250 LT235/85R16 LRE weighs 60# and is capable of 3042# @ 80 psi max.

So according to the idea that a heavier tire is a better tire the best is the Bridgestone followed by Goodyear then Michelin, if you need to carry 3,042# or less.

Not having been involved in direct controlled testing to compare Bridgestone and Goodyear and Michelin and Greenball and other LT235/85R16 size tires I am not making any attempt to look at the performance of one or even a few tires and pass judgment on all tires with some similar feature, be it country of manufacture or body ply material etc.

Now you may have been involved in a multi-brand controlled test drum comparison and have seen data on the running temperature of the XPS Rib as being cooler than the competition. If so I think we would all like to see the numbers as that would help us make informed decisions on other than individual opinions.

In general I agree that some steel body tires perform better than some textile body tires but would certainly not make the leap to say that all steel body tires are better than all textile body tires.


I do not believe I have ever said or implied that cheap tires are better or equal or worse than more expensive tires. If people want to believe that price is the controlling factor then they should be buying their tires from the dealer that charges the highest price as they must have the best tires according to that concept.


I have seen some good tires that were manufactured in China and some bad ones just as I have seen some poor constructions in tires made in the USA and some good ones. I am inclined to believe that if one of the "Big-3" tire companies decides to manufacture or sell tires not made in the USA then they are putting their reputation on the line so will in all probability take the steps necessary to ensure satisfactory quality is in the tires they sell.
On the other hand when you buy tires you have never heard of from a fly by night tire dealer working out of an old gas station you may not get the quality you are hoping for.

To ALL
Proper tire selection is a complex process. There is no single measure of quality or durability that will always correctly identify the "best" tire for your individual application.
Price, Weight, Construction, tread depth, warranty, dealer support and manufacturer's reputation and other features, all need to be considered once you know the facts of your load and expected operation.


40 years experience as tire Design & Quality engineer with focus on failed tire forensics.

Google "Tireman9" if you want to learn more on RV Tire Safety


Posted By: Denny & Jami on 09/12/10 01:27pm

up2nogood wrote
After reading your comments I have yet to read what kind of weight you, and the others had on the G614's ,or I may have missed it. I own a 15500 GVWR fifth wheel, the weight range you do not agree should be running G614's . My point is do you know what the others had on those tires, were there inflation maintained etc etc

We average 12700 on the axles with a total weight 16K on the high side and always maintained 110 psi. The others I have personally talked to where the same or a little higher and they also maintained 110 psi some of them even have pressure monitors, one even had each tire weighed and they where all within the tire ratings.

Denny


2013 F350 SC DRW 6.2 V8 4.30 gears Air Lifts
2003 HitchHiker Premier 35FKTG 215/75/17.5 Sumitomo tires


Posted By: Chris on 09/12/10 04:43pm

Tireman9 wrote:



According to info on the net.
Michelin indicates it's LT235/85R16 LRE weighs 55.8# and is capable of 3042# @ 80 psi max
Goodyear G614 LT235/85R16 LRG weighs 26kg or 57.3 # and is rated at 3,750# @ 110 psi max and 3,042@ 80psi
Bridgestone R250 LT235/85R16 LRE weighs 60# and is capable of 3042# @ 80 psi max.

.


Those are all similar tires in weight. The Greenball Hiway trooper LRG at 45 lbs is not in the same class and the same for the Marathon at 35 lbs. The R250 has extra rubber in the sidewall protection ridge making it weigh more. All three are all steel ply tires. Two of the tires above when used within there limits are not reporting issues. The Goodyear is reporting some issues. The Greenball weighs in similar to the Commercial TA, yet is rated for a lot more load. Smoke and mirrors like ST's??? Results about the same???

If I had 7K axles I would be installing 17.5 rims and LRH tires. It's just me. My daddy taught me to use the best tires available 50 some years ago when I started driving. That's why my 5200 axles have XPS RIBs and will get another set next year. Treads fine, however they will be 6 years old in the spring, and we are talking about a trip to the East Coast next year at this time.

Chris


My Rig
2001.5 2500 STD CAB AUTO SLT 4x4, CTD 4:10's, Bomb'd to Tow
2005 Cardinal 29WBLX.


Posted By: kakampers on 09/12/10 05:19pm

up2nogood wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:

agree, 17.5 on a 15-16K GVWR is totally a waste of money, the most on the tires would be around 13K, thats if the trailer is loaded to capacity. IMO I would not like that stiff of tire on something that will not load the tires. I can't see bouncing around on that stiff of tire, IMO that cannot do the trailer any good. A tire that will handle 4800 lbs, and loading it with 3000 or less,what would be the point, when a G rated G614 would get the job done. I nearly pulled the trigger on 17.5 until I came to my senses, and went with the G614's


This is what I have learned about the G6214 tire on trailers between 15-16K weight class. Our trailer runs between 15.6 and 16K and it came with 614s in 3/03 when it was new. We retired in August of 06 and the trailer was always stored in a building when not in use so exposure to sun was not a problem. In 04/07 on our way back to our home base one of the treads pealed off outside of Reno (this right after I was telling everybody how great this tires where). We replaced all 4 because the one in front of it was also showing sighs of doing the same thing, they only had between 22 to 24K of them. In the spring of 08 we where at a RV Rally and there where four trailers all the same weight class and brand all with G614 tires, they had original tires 1 to 2 years old and we where on are second set, they all thought the 614 was a great tire I thought they where junk. Fast forward to this spring to another Rally and none of us had 614s on our trailers because of tread separation and blowouts, 3 of us had 17.5s and one had another brand of G tire. All the tires started failing in the 20K range that's also where we lost our second set. There was also 2 other trailers of the same weight class that had 17.5s because the 614 tires they had failed. That's not a very good track record for 15-16K trailers. They are all a extended and fulltime rvers so the miles do pile up fast and that's why I think they failed in the 2 to 3 year range. Now the ones at the Rally's that have lighter trailers and upgraded to 614 from E tires don't seem to be having the problems that the heavier trailers are it's when they are run closer to their rated load rating. I run our 17.5 tires at the full 125 psi and we can not tell any difference in the ride over the 614.

Denny




And the ones that run the 614 with success do not count ?? Yes your bad experience does count, but how many thousands of these tires run with success, to the few that you have reported that do not. This discussion could go on forever, you maintain they are junk, others don't. Time will tell for me, and if they fail this forum will be first to know, and also if they succeed


After reading your comments I have yet to read what kind of weight you, and the others had on the G614's ,or I may have missed it. I own a 15500 GVWR fifth wheel, the weight range you do not agree should be running G614's . My point is do you know what the others had on those tires, were there inflation maintained etc etc.


END QUOTE

Our G614 failed at just about 3 years of age with 12,900 pounds on the 4 tires...each tire was weighed independantly and the closest margin was at least 350 lbs. And yes, we use a TPMS and kept all tires at 110 psi. Our total gross weight for the trailer is just under 17,000 pounds...we have a pin weight of 4,000 pounds.

We too will be replacing these G614's before they get much past the age of two, with 17.5 rims and H load tires....


2013 Heartland Landmark Key Largo with Mor Ryde IS and disc brakes
2011 Chevy Silverado 3500 DRW Crew Cab Duramax Diesel


Posted By: Denny & Jami on 09/12/10 06:53pm

kakampers what a I started doing was every time I would jack up each tire to check my Nev-Lube bearings I would give the tire a spin so I could look at the tread of each tire. That's how I found the last one before it had a chance to come apart and damage our trailer again, in fact I just did that today.

Denny


Posted By: NC Hauler on 09/12/10 01:38pm

Denny & Jami wrote:

up2nogood wrote
After reading your comments I have yet to read what kind of weight you, and the others had on the G614's ,or I may have missed it. I own a 15500 GVWR fifth wheel, the weight range you do not agree should be running G614's . My point is do you know what the others had on those tires, were there inflation maintained etc etc

We average 12700 on the axles with a total weight 16K on the high side and always maintained 110 psi. The others I have personally talked to where the same or a little higher and they also maintained 110 psi some of them even have pressure monitors, one even had each tire weighed and they where all within the tire ratings.

Denny


You say, "the others", is that "everyone" again as you stated in your earlier post, where you insinuated/stated that EVERYONE that had G614RST's had experienced tire failures.

I would also check my TPMS if it didn't clue me that I was losing air and about to have a tire failure.


Jim & Kathy
2013 Dodge 3500DRW Longhorn 4X4/CC/LB/Aisin tranny/4:10/Cummins: 385HP/850TQ
06 HR Presidential Suite 37RLQ/SK3005 Satellite/Splendide XC2100/4slide/dual pane windows
2014 Jeep Compass Ltd 4X4
Boxers;Buddy& Sheba II
USAF 71-75 Nam Vet


Posted By: Denny & Jami on 09/23/10 07:44pm

up2nogood wrote:

K6DKO wrote:

So you have increased the weight of each tire by how much?? You have put a much stiffer tire on your trailer there for putting much more stress on you suspension not to mention your trailer.



I agree,IMO People do not think this is a problem, but those heavier then needed tires are not being loaded, it is like putting truck tires on a car. We all know how tires flex when turning or backing up at sharp angles, yes if in loose gravel or dirt they are able to give, but on pavement or cement they need to give, those heavy tires IMO ,and others, something else is going to have to flex if the tires do not, rims,suspension,frame etc. I too nearly pulled the trigger on 17.5 until I got some advice from a reputable tire dealer on another forum, basically what I am saying here. Until proven wrong I will run a quality tire with adequate weight rating for MY trailer ( G614 ) If I could come somewhere around 4000 lbs per tire with my 15500 GVWR 7K axle fifth wheel with H rated tires that handle 4800 lbs, but loaded to maximum GVWR I can only get around 12500 on the axles, maybe 13000 depending on pin weight , thats putting around 3250 on the tires well under the maximum of a G rated tire 3750, and 1550 under an H rated tire 4800, does not make a lot of sense to go that heavy of tire for me or anyone in my weight range.


We have run 235/85/16 G14s at 110 psi on our trailer for 7 years so we know how things ride back there. With our 215/75/17.5 tires at 125psi things ride the same and with the lower profile there seams to be less sway. This is not from talking to someone or guessing this is from personal experience with the two tires running the same roads from I-10 to the switchbacks on US40 in Colorado.

Denny


Posted By: Vroadracer on 09/23/10 12:07pm

On 08/08/10 I posted a message explaining the circumstances surrounding an explosion of one of my LT235/R85/16 G rated tires on my Cardinal 37RL 5th wheel. In that post I asked the question, "if it was practical to change the wheel and tire size on my Cardinal 37RL for 16 inch to 17.5 inch"?

I have now completed the process of investigation and have taken the action that I believe will prevent me from having the same problem again.

I consulted with Scott at Sparks of Imagination,INC in Edon, OH and got the information that I needed to get the correct tire, wheel and lug nuts to put on my 5th wheel.

I got a set of 215/75R/17.5 H Rated(16 ply) tires with all steel belts both in the tread and the sidewall. These tires have a 4805 lbs carrying capacity per tire.

One of the 16" G Rated tire that came of my trailer that I checked had 7 plies in the tread that consisted of 3 polyester, 2 steel and 2 nylon. The sidewall had 3 ply of polyester.

Obviously the 'all steel' 17.5" tires will be much stronger than the 16" tires that I have removed that had both polyester and nylon instead of being all steel.

The 17.5 tires have 2.5" space between the front and rear tires where my 235/R85/16 only had 1 3/8" space between the front and rear tire.
This will make it easier to get the tire covers over the tires when the trailer is setting in the sun for several days at a time which is just an added bonus.

I hope this information will be of assistance to any person that has a heavy 5th wheel trailer and is having blowouts or tire problems.
Vroadracer


Posted By: K6DKO on 09/23/10 03:14pm

So you have increased the weight of each tire by how much?? You have put a much stiffer tire on your trailer there for putting much more stress on you suspension not to mention your trailer.


2008 Ford F450 Lariat 4X4 LOADED
2007 Weekend Warrior CR3705
2008 KTM 450 EXC-R Plated
2003 Jeep Rubicon O||||O
UPS Feeder Driver
Ham call sign K6DKO
Formerly KF6PLH



Posted By: up2nogood on 09/23/10 05:02pm

K6DKO wrote:

So you have increased the weight of each tire by how much?? You have put a much stiffer tire on your trailer there for putting much more stress on you suspension not to mention your trailer.



I agree,IMO People do not think this is a problem, but those heavier then needed tires are not being loaded, it is like putting truck tires on a car. We all know how tires flex when turning or backing up at sharp angles, yes if in loose gravel or dirt they are able to give, but on pavement or cement they need to give, those heavy tires IMO ,and others, something else is going to have to flex if the tires do not, rims,suspension,frame etc. I too nearly pulled the trigger on 17.5 until I got some advice from a reputable tire dealer on another forum, basically what I am saying here. Until proven wrong I will run a quality tire with adequate weight rating for MY trailer ( G614 ) If I could come somewhere around 4000 lbs per tire with my 15500 GVWR 7K axle fifth wheel with H rated tires that handle 4800 lbs, but loaded to maximum GVWR I can only get around 12500 on the axles, maybe 13000 depending on pin weight , thats putting around 3250 on the tires well under the maximum of a G rated tire 3750, and 1550 under an H rated tire 4800, does not make a lot of sense to go that heavy of tire for me or anyone in my weight range.


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