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Topic: Dodge 6 speed standard

Posted By: SWMO on 09/13/10 09:17am

I've turned my search for a truck toward Dodge. I'm not only not finding any Fords, there seems to be none in the good years.
I can find some nice DRW 3500 Dodge's, but they all have standards, farm country normal.
My question is does anyone have experience pulling a heavy fiver with a standard. I have a lot of experience with a standard shift and I know the clutch has to be stout. I can't imagine anything worse than a blown clutch out on the road.
Comments??


2009 Dodge 3500 Laramie, DRW, 4X4, auto, 6.7L, B & W Companion.
Jayco Designer 34RLQS, Mor/Ryde



Posted By: mowermech on 09/13/10 09:28am

I towed the fiver in my sig with the truck in my sig around the West for three years, full timing.
If I were to upgrade my truck, I would find a Dodge CTD HO 6 speed manual. My son had one, and we could back the trailer into a site without ever touching the throttle! When they say "Zero throttle launch", they mean just exactly that!
In fact, my old '94 was just as good.
With a little practice you should have no clutch problems at all!
IMO, anybody who blows the clutch out of a Dodge CTD needs to learn how to drive their truck! (EDIT: Well, I did it again, forgot to say that there are ALWAYS exceptions! Which, of course, there ARE! Sometimes things just break, for no apparent reason. Such is life!)
But then, I learned to drive in a 1939 Ford, and a 1946 Ford pickup with a four speed, so I grew up knowing how to use a clutch. Many people these days don't have that advantage.
I would not have anything but a manual transmission for heavy duty use.
You can do it if you want to. The clutch should hold up just fine.

* This post was edited 09/14/10 04:49pm by mowermech *


CM1, USN (RET)
2002 Fleetwood Southwind 32V, Ford V10
Toad 1: '06 PT Cruiser, Kar Kaddy dolly
Toy (and Toad 2): 2001 Dodge QC SWB, 360 Magnum, Auto, 4X4
"When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"


Posted By: JustLabs on 09/13/10 10:08am

My fifth wheel weighs in right at 11,000lbs. Not the heaviest,but not a lightweight either.

I've been towing it with a manual for over three years. The Dodge is very easy to drive and with the torque "curve" of the Cummins there really isn't all that much shifting.


2011 Chevrolet 2500HD LTZ 4x4 CCLB Duramax/Allison
2007 Keystone Cougar 289BHS Fifth Wheel.



Posted By: double clutch on 09/13/10 09:45am

Hi


I have a 2004.5 and I love the manual transmission. Firm believer in thinking for yourself sort of man against the machines

One thing with the manual you get the 3.73 rear end and I am strongly considering swapping out to the 4.11. I have a differential oil change coming and that would be a good time. Under load and driving at 60 mph which is the Interstate speed limit for towing around here I am running at around 1600 rpm in 6th which is loafing the engine a little too much IMHO. I want to take the RPM up just a notch get it higher in the torque curve.

GL
Don


Don and Penni and our dog Darby
2004 Dodge 3500
2010 Jayco Designer 35 RLTS



Posted By: philhoey on 09/13/10 10:32am

Having a standard is a good way to make sure your truck never gets stolen. Most people will look at the 3rd pedal and say 'What is that for?' LOL


Phillip, Janet, and the Mutt
2003 Silverado 1500HD 4.10 rear
32' Coachman 5th wheel



Posted By: dfb on 09/13/10 10:43am

I have an 04.5 Dually with the 6 speed NV-5600... I also have the 4:10s.. We are pulling a 37 foot 5ver with 4 slides.... See my sig then go the website for photos... 61000 miles and no issues... One thing for sure.. An exhaust brake is NOT an option, it is a requirement...The truck's clutch is I think a 13 inch heavy duty.. Replacing is about 1000.00.... but alot cheaper than an auto...


Posted By: larry barnhart on 09/13/10 02:52pm

neighbors cousin with an 04 cummins manual just replaced his cluth at 140000. He tows a TT sometimes.
chevman


chevman
2001 35 ft avalon alpenlite RK
2005 3500 2wd duramax CC dually
prodigy
easyrider/reese airhitch
trailair center point suspension
JT Strong Arm Stabilizers
KSH 55 inbed fuel tank
Garmin 2720
scanguage II
TD-EOC
Induction Overhaul Kit
TST tire monitors



Posted By: JustLabs on 09/13/10 03:58pm

SWMO wrote:

Quote:

zero throttle launch


Is this a feature or an add on?

Does the standard tranny have the exhaust brake?


The ZTL is a feature on all the 3rd gen Rams.

The exhaust brake is standard on all the Rams with the 6.7 Cummins ('07.5-current)


Posted By: JustLabs on 09/13/10 04:43pm

rock-rod wrote:

double clutch wrote:

Hi


I have a 2004.5 and I love the manual transmission. Firm believer in thinking for yourself sort of man against the machines

One thing with the manual you get the 3.73 rear end and I am strongly considering swapping out to the 4.11. I have a differential oil change coming and that would be a good time. Under load and driving at 60 mph which is the Interstate speed limit for towing around here I am running at around 1600 rpm in 6th which is loafing the engine a little too much IMHO. I want to take the RPM up just a notch get it higher in the torque curve.

GL
Don


I have to agree on this. I tow a heavy 5er and there are times I wish I had the 4.10s in the axles. I try to shoot for a cruise rpm of 1900 rpms but at 60 mph, you have to run in 5th.


It all depends on what year the truck is. My truck has the G56 and 3.73s

6th gear in the early G56s is lower than 6th gear in the NV5600. My truck with 3.73s is basically identical to having 4.10s in the NV5600.

I'm turning 2000rpm at 60 and about 2100 at 65.


Posted By: Butch50 on 09/13/10 11:20am

mowermech wrote:



IMO, anybody who blows the clutch out of a Dodge CTD needs to learn how to drive their truck!
You can do it if you want to. The clutch should hold up just fine.


I have a 2006 CTD with the 6 speed and there is another set of problems here. I have had to have my clutch replaced already and it isn't because I don't know how to drive a clutch. I started my driving in a 49 Chevy 2.5 ton truck on the ranch and it had to be double clutched. I have had standards all my life and I even had a 96 Volvo semi that I converted to an RV puller and it had a 10 speed in it. As well as many sports cars with standards. So as you can see I do have some standard driving experence. The Dodges in my years have a dual mass clutch and there seems to be some problems with them. When I took mine in at about 5,000 miles because I had a chatter and shudder from a stop and they ended up replacing the clutch throw out bearing and the pressure plate. I still have a little shake to it when I take off from a stop. Now if I need to replace it on my dime the dual mass will be eliminated.

The zero throttle launch can cause some problems if you are 4X4 and want to go real slow and push the clutch in almost stop the rig then need to ease the cluth out because you want to just move a little the engine will want to rev up. So in those instances you have to watch it. Other than that it is great for taking off from a stop or when you need to start up on a hill. None of this right foot holding the brake at the same time trying to feed the throttle a little while easing the clutch out with the left. Just hold the brake and ease the clutch out and let the zero throttle launch rev the engine a little and then take you foot off the brake and then you are on your way.

I pulled a 17,500# GVWR with my Dodge (just a short ways as was really too much for the truck as it wanted to push it around in the corners but it is a SRW) but the truck never had a problem getting the outfit moving and never seemed to be working with it and I agree with the exhaust brake on it. They work great with the standard trans.

All of this is IMO.


Butch
2013 Ram 3500 4X4 CC Laramie DRW
Light Metallic Gray with black interior
2012 Northern Lite 10 2 CDSE
2010 Can-Am 650XT Outlander Max
2012 Harley Tri Glide


Posted By: ib516 on 09/13/10 02:41pm

This 1.4 million mile Dodge/Cummins (used to haul & deliver RVs) is on it's second clutch. How does a 700,000 mile life grab you? LINK

As well, you should read up on the zero-throttle lauch feature. No matter the load or grade, just let out the clutch (no throttle pedal application needed) and the truck will get the load moving. Handy to have, no stalling.


2010 Cougar 322QBS 5er
Prev:
01 Dodge 2500 360 gas, 4.10
02 Dodge 2500 5.9L Cummins, 3.55
07 Dodge 3500 SRW Mega 5.9L Cummins, 3.73
Current:
2014 RAM 2500, 6.4L Hemi, 4.10, auto

10000# GVWR, 5500# FGAWR, 6500# RGAWR, 3040# payload, 15470# tow rating, 22500# GCWR



Posted By: ib516 on 09/13/10 04:18pm

SWMO wrote:

Quote:

zero throttle launch


Is this a feature or an add on?

Does the standard tranny have the exhaust brake?

Not an add-on, comes "standard" () since 2003.

Anything with a 6.7L Cummins has an exhaust brake, also standard since 2007.5.


Posted By: SWMO on 09/13/10 03:01pm

Quote:

zero throttle launch


Is this a feature or an add on?

Does the standard tranny have the exhaust brake?

* This post was edited 09/13/10 03:13pm by SWMO *


Posted By: rock-rod on 09/13/10 04:34pm

double clutch wrote:

Hi


I have a 2004.5 and I love the manual transmission. Firm believer in thinking for yourself sort of man against the machines

One thing with the manual you get the 3.73 rear end and I am strongly considering swapping out to the 4.11. I have a differential oil change coming and that would be a good time. Under load and driving at 60 mph which is the Interstate speed limit for towing around here I am running at around 1600 rpm in 6th which is loafing the engine a little too much IMHO. I want to take the RPM up just a notch get it higher in the torque curve.

GL
Don


I have to agree on this. I tow a heavy 5er and there are times I wish I had the 4.10s in the axles. I try to shoot for a cruise rpm of 1900 rpms but at 60 mph, you have to run in 5th.


2003 Ram 2500 QC HO 6 spd. Pacbrake, Ride Rite bags, TST CR47, Hankook Dynapro ATMs (285/70-17s)
Reese 18k Signature Series with manual slide
2008 Keystone Fuzion 382 Toy Hauler
1994 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80


Posted By: Bill1374 on 09/14/10 09:12am

Had a 2000 dually with the 5 speed, 4.10s and loved it. If arthur hadn't taken up serious residence in both my knees, I would still have it.

Bill


2014 Crossroads Cruiser
2006 Dodge quadcab,dually 2 wheel drive
2002 HD Dynaglide


Posted By: C Schomer on 09/13/10 09:04pm

I wouldn't trade my 6spd OR the 4.1! My previous CTD was a 97 5spd 3.54 - great for the salt flats and the 25' 5er I had then but it sucked with this 5er. It was fine at 70+ but that doesn't work on the 2 lane SH's I'm on so much. Also, granny with the 3.54 could hardly be called granny. I read the dodge forums for nearly 3 yrs after the 03 CRs came out and I new exactly what I wanted based on mpg, emmissions, diff ratio and which 6spd to get - nv5600 or late 05+ g56. Anything works for getting the groceries but I wanted the best towing brute possible. Then I searched for several months til I found it. Detroit still hasn't made anything since, that I would rather have. Craig


03Dodge QC HO 5.9 Dually NV5600, 4.1 Rear WD, PS 62/65/14 turbo, TST/PMCR, 4" exh, PRXB Pacbrake, Rancho 9000s, FS Airbags, Onboard air/in-cab controls, Custom hauler bed. 2008 Sunnybrook 30RKFS-LTD Our 3rd SB 5er. WHOEVER INVENTED WORK DIDN'T HAVE AN RV!


Posted By: larry barnhart on 09/14/10 08:30am

I think the reason GM and Ford stopped using the manual trannie was they weren't selling enough of them.
chevman


Posted By: camping man on 09/14/10 02:46pm

I've had good luck so far with mine at 80k miles, clutch holds like the day I bought it. Only problem so far is my clutch pedal squeaked, but I just oiled the pivot point under the dash. I'm happy though, my auto in my 3500 GMC was toast at 70k., and I pulled my 5er home 700miles without reverse, and 3rd gear. The next day I pulled the pan, and it was loaded with pieces of an O Ring, I blew a piston seal.


05 Dodge CTD NV5600 6speed (100K Mile Club) / 97 Sprinter 5er



Posted By: Ram4Sam on 09/14/10 01:09pm

JustLabs wrote:

SWMO wrote:

Quote:

zero throttle launch


Is this a feature or an add on?

Does the standard tranny have the exhaust brake?


The ZTL is a feature on all the 3rd gen Rams.

The exhaust brake is standard on all the Rams with the 6.7 Cummins ('07.5-current)


The 24v 2nd gen trucks also have the ZTL feature.

Sam


2014 Dodge cummins 3500 SRW LB CC 4X4 Aisin, Nav, white w/brown
No keys, B&W TOB & Companion

Gone....served me well...1991 Dodge Cummins...2001.5 Dodge Cummins

2008 Thor Jazz 2870UK 5er

Driving a Dodge Cummins since 1991...


Posted By: thebudman on 09/14/10 04:14pm

tkcrawford wrote:

If my DVD player goes south it won't stop me from getting where I was headed but a blown transmission would certainly ruin my day.



You must have never taken long trips with young kids...


08 Dodge Ram 3500 Mega Cab 6 sp manual
08 WW FK 2100
08 Rhino, 99 Honda TRX 400




RIP--USA: 1776 - 2012.


Posted By: surveyorjp on 09/14/10 02:37pm

larry barnhart wrote:

I think the reason GM and Ford stopped using the manual trannie was they weren't selling enough of them.
chevman


I'm sure that is the reason, they couldn't justify offering a manual selection to folks who would prefer it because it didn't help the bottom line. It's all about money, and they abandoned those folks in the name of the almighty dollar. That is why I fear Ram will do the same thing at some point because the Ram autos have been improved a great deal, and the take on 6 speed manuals is dropping even in Ram trucks.

For many folks, (like a great many I have noticed here at rv.net), who trade trucks every few years, the automatic transmission is fine and will easily last until they get the new truck itch again. However, for those who are going to keep their truck to 150,000 miles and beyond, those transmission rebuilds are going to be quite costly on these highly technical and complicated pieces of gadgetry.


2012 Dodge Grand Caravan. Popup shopping


Posted By: surveyorjp on 09/13/10 09:24pm

tkcrawford wrote:

SWMO wrote:

I've turned my search for a truck toward Dodge. I'm not only not finding any Fords, there seems to be none in the good years.
I can find some nice DRW 3500 Dodge's, but they all have standards, farm country normal.
My question is does anyone have experience pulling a heavy fiver with a standard. I have a lot of experience with a standard shift and I know the clutch has to be stout. I can't imagine anything worse than a blown clutch out on the road.
Comments??


I have a manual transmission in my current CTD and I also have had manuals in each of the previous 3 CTDs I have owned. Before I got this Eagle Cap camper, I was towing a 38 foot Cedar Creek 5th wheel and I have never had a seconds worth of problems with any of the transmissions or clutches. I have always kept my trucks stock without any power adding gadgets.

In my books, it's all about reliability. I may want to have all the latest whiz-bang toys inside the cab but when it comes to moving me from A to B, I want the most reliable machinery I can find - which explains why I drive a Cummins with a manual transmission. If my DVD player goes south it won't stop me from getting where I was headed but a blown transmission would certainly ruin my day.

In fairness, todays automatics are light years ahead of their predecessors of even a few years ago and they can do some really amazing things. But, in the final analysis, they are still very expensive and very complicated pieces of machinery. There is just so much more on them to fail than on a manual...computers to fail, cables to chafe, tubing to leak, connectors to corrode and on and on. A manual transmission is as simple as a stone ax and just as reliable. On top of that, I can put it in any gear I want and it will stay there as long as I want it to. I don't need to worry about it overheating.

As for clutches, yes, you have to know how to drive to keep from wearing them out prematurely. But in nearly 50 years of driving, most of it in manual transmission cars and trucks, I haven't worn out a clutch or had one fail. Well, ok, I did blow the clutch out of my '61 Bel Air but I was 17 at the time and it took a lot of abuse before it finally gave up the ghost.

I have nothing bad to say about anybody who prefers an automatic because someday I may need to go to an automatic myself. But until that day comes, I will happily do my own shifting.


Excellent post tkcrawford!!

I have said the same thing in the past, and have been called old fashioned, behind the times, even a luddite! You are absolutely correct though about the simplicity and reliability of manual transmissions. I'd have one myself had I found one available for the right price when I was truck shopping a few years back. The only reason I settled for this automatic was the fact that this truck was a low mileage gem when I bought it, and was within my budget. However, the cost of a transmission rebuild is always in the back of my mind. And the new transmissions in the new pickups now with their high tech electronics and more gears are surely VERY expensive to repair/rebuild.

Unfortunately, GM and Ford have decided that folks who prefer a manual transmission are not important to their bottom line, and have abandoned those folks. I worry, that RAM will ultimately kill off the 6 speed manual as well.


Posted By: beretzs on 09/14/10 04:13am

I am another with an 06 Megacab with the G56 6 speed manual. It is an awesome transmission and I would be heartbroken if I couldn't buy another when the time comes. I have almost a 100K my truck now and the clutch is fine. I have pulled alot of trailers and my Raptor 3814SS loaded to the gills through the Blueridge Pkway without issues. It is awesome to just let off the clutch and let the truck run! I can't think of a better pulling truck than a Cummins with a 6 speed. I am sure the auto's are nice, but I like mine alot. Very simple and easy to take care of! Good luck in your search. I doubt you would find a better pulling truck. Scotty


Semper Fi

Tow Rig - 2006 Dodge Megacab CTD Laramie 6-Speed

Keystone Raptor 3814SS - Suzuki 700 King Quad, 400 4x4 Artic Cat, 250 Suzuki

2008 Jeep Commander 4.7V8


Posted By: me2 on 09/14/10 05:29pm

larry barnhart wrote:

I think the reason GM and Ford stopped using the manual trannie was they weren't selling enough of them.
chevman


That is because they didn't offer them in a lot of their packages. And the ZF6 has a lot of gear roll over noise, which forced them to use dual mass clutches, which caused a lot of trouble.


Posted By: SWMO on 09/14/10 04:11pm

Well I ran across a 2009 3500, Laramie, DRW with an auto and I bought it. The wife is happy.

* This post was edited 09/16/10 05:02pm by SWMO *


Posted By: clewsew on 09/14/10 08:26am

We have an '06 Mega Cab 6 speed manual as well, and love it as well! I do sometimes wish for a little bit higher gear for empty highway driving, but for towing, it is GREAT! I love the truck, and I changed out the trans fluid myself...was easy to do. Have about 54k miles, and hope for 300k more...none of the emissions stuff on it other than a cat and muffler either! It is a gem in my book...good luck!


Posted By: tkcrawford on 09/14/10 09:06am

larry barnhart wrote:

I think the reason GM and Ford stopped using the manual trannie was they weren't selling enough of them.
chevman


I agree that Ford and GM didn't sell very many manuals. As a matter of fact, I can't remember seeing more than one or two in the last 10 years and those were in stripped down work trucks. Yet it would seem, from my reading and experience, that the manual transmission was the transmission of choice for Dodge even in their top of the line Laramie, such as mine. In years gone by the CTD was rated at a higher horsepower if it had a manual transmission behind it, although I don't believe that is the case today.

* This post was edited 09/14/10 04:18pm by tkcrawford *


2004 Dodge Laramie 3500 Dually, CTD 305/555, Quad Cab, 4x4, NV5600
2008 Eagle Cap 995, 310W Solar



Posted By: tkcrawford on 09/14/10 05:00pm

thebudman wrote:

tkcrawford wrote:

If my DVD player goes south it won't stop me from getting where I was headed but a blown transmission would certainly ruin my day.



You must have never taken long trips with young kids...


Good one. Yes, you are correct, I do not travel with young kids. If I did, I would imagine my priorities may change a bit.


Posted By: tkcrawford on 09/13/10 05:01pm

SWMO wrote:

I've turned my search for a truck toward Dodge. I'm not only not finding any Fords, there seems to be none in the good years.
I can find some nice DRW 3500 Dodge's, but they all have standards, farm country normal.
My question is does anyone have experience pulling a heavy fiver with a standard. I have a lot of experience with a standard shift and I know the clutch has to be stout. I can't imagine anything worse than a blown clutch out on the road.
Comments??


I have a manual transmission in my current CTD and I also have had manuals in each of the previous 3 CTDs I have owned. Before I got this Eagle Cap camper, I was towing a 38 foot Cedar Creek 5th wheel and I have never had a seconds worth of problems with any of the transmissions or clutches. I have always kept my trucks stock without any power adding gadgets.

In my books, it's all about reliability. I may want to have all the latest whiz-bang toys inside the cab but when it comes to moving me from A to B, I want the most reliable machinery I can find - which explains why I drive a Cummins with a manual transmission. If my DVD player goes south it won't stop me from getting where I was headed but a blown transmission would certainly ruin my day.

In fairness, todays automatics are light years ahead of their predecessors of even a few years ago and they can do some really amazing things. But, in the final analysis, they are still very expensive and very complicated pieces of machinery. There is just so much more on them to fail than on a manual...computers to fail, cables to chafe, tubing to leak, connectors to corrode and on and on. A manual transmission is as simple as a stone ax and just as reliable. On top of that, I can put it in any gear I want and it will stay there as long as I want it to. I don't need to worry about it overheating.

As for clutches, yes, you have to know how to drive to keep from wearing them out prematurely. But in nearly 50 years of driving, most of it in manual transmission cars and trucks, I haven't worn out a clutch or had one fail. Well, ok, I did blow the clutch out of my '61 Bel Air but I was 17 at the time and it took a lot of abuse before it finally gave up the ghost.

I have nothing bad to say about anybody who prefers an automatic because someday I may need to go to an automatic myself. But until that day comes, I will happily do my own shifting.


Posted By: otisroy on 09/13/10 10:01pm

surveyorjp wrote:

Unfortunately, GM and Ford have decided that folks who prefer a manual transmission are not important to their bottom line, and have abandoned those folks. I worry, that RAM will ultimately kill off the 6 speed manual as well.


I'll be moving a$$ over tea kettle if they do that. I've been looking at the CTD for quite a while. My bro-in-law bought the exact truck I wanted but after his maiden trip in the sand, I decided a manual was a must. That CTD was screaming under his 5'er and the torque converter was not a willing player.

Simplicity and the ability to be more precise with the clutch make the case for me. Hitching on a grade or on loose ground is much easier in my 15K lb. truck with a 5-speed manual than in my Chevy auto.

-Chris


2011 Keystone Laredo 291TG
2005 Chevy 2500HD
1971 Kaiser-Jeep M109A3
1971 AM General M35A2
Subaru RG3200iS



Posted By: larry barnhart on 09/15/10 12:32pm

larry barnhart wrote:

neighbors cousin with an 04 cummins manual just replaced his cluth at 140000. He tows a TT sometimes.
chevman

neighbores cousin just called to say his 6 speed manual was just replaced for $4000.00. So $1200.00 for a new clutch before he left on the trip and now the trannie at $4000.00. 140K on the truck. I don't think this is normal but sometimes stuff happens.
chevman


Posted By: larry barnhart on 09/16/10 11:54am

RoyJ wrote:

larry barnhart wrote:

larry barnhart wrote:

neighbors cousin with an 04 cummins manual just replaced his cluth at 140000. He tows a TT sometimes.
chevman

neighbores cousin just called to say his 6 speed manual was just replaced for $4000.00. So $1200.00 for a new clutch before he left on the trip and now the trannie at $4000.00. 140K on the truck. I don't think this is normal but sometimes stuff happens.
chevman


Probably don't happen nearly as often as people toasting their automatic after putting a "chip" on their diesel truck.


That was my point it isn't a normal thing.
chevman


Posted By: larry barnhart on 09/16/10 02:19pm

me2 wrote:

I don't know how people can buy a truck with an auto. I've tried and I just can't make myself do it. You know its going to fail and you can't predict when it does. And its $3K or more when it does. And you have to change oil in the darn thing.

I can shift gears. BTW: My South Bend clutch has significantly reduced pedal effort versus what it was stock. Its like shifting a sports car. Plus the powerband on my 3rd gen Cummins is wide... you can't really put it in the wrong gear. It pulls everywhere.

I really like my ZF. My biggest gripe is that it has gear rollover noise if you lug it.



If the clutch was changed this seems like it must have cost money so what caused it to break?

chevman


Posted By: mr. ed on 09/17/10 05:50pm

'68Monaco440HP wrote:

There's never a problem getting started, and I use all six gears all the time (as Dodge recommends; none of this start in second business).


According to the instruction manual for my 2007.5 Dodge 3500, 2nd gear starts ARE permissible when NOT towing. I start off in 2nd most of the time when not towing, except if starting on a hill. The torque of the Cummins at idle allows 2nd gear starts without applying any throttle (I think it's called Zero Throttle Launch, or something like that).


Mr. Ed (fulltiming since 1987)

2007 Hitchhiker II LS Model 29.5 LKTG
2007 Dodge Ram 3500/6.7 CTD/QC/4X4/SB/SRW/6-speed man/Big Horn edition



Posted By: mr. ed on 09/15/10 04:35pm

me2 wrote:

Fisherman wrote:

The newer ones with the G56 have a DMF unless they modified it upon transplant.
I put it in.

That is interesting because my ZF6 has a lot of gear rollover noise.

BTW: if its like the Ford DMFs, they don't slip. The clutch plate slips against the flywheel. Slippage has nothing to do with the DMF.


Slippage CAN have something to do with the DMF. Even though the clutch material may be in good shape the springs in the DMF can weaken or break, causing the same symptoms as a worn clutch. So, in some cases of slippage concerning the G56 clutch in the Dodge the cause may actually be a bad DMF, not the clutch itself.


Posted By: mr. ed on 09/14/10 05:44pm

My 2007.5 Dodge 3500 RAM is standard shift (I much prefer stick to automatic, but must admit the new automatics have come a long way). One thing to be aware of is that the OEM clutch, using the DMF (dual mass flywheel) is a weak point in an otherwise very powerful machine. Mine started slipping about two years ago in 5th & 5th (only when towing). For some reason the slippage situation has improved but I'm still careful not to accelerate too fast in 5th & 6th when towing.

If you can afford to upgrade the clutch to a Valair or South Bend unit you can circumvent this problem but be aware that the OEM clutch and flywheel are designed to have a better "feel" (more like those found on cars and such) and you might find a heavier-duty alternative to be too "grabby" or noisy. Even so, I'd probably opt for one of these aftermarket clutches when the time comes. In the meantime I'm doing fine by not pushing the go pedal too hard when towing.


Posted By: JustLabs on 09/16/10 11:27am

RoyJ wrote:



Probably don't happen nearly as often as people toasting their automatic after putting a "chip" on their diesel truck.


It absolutely doesn't happen as often as the autos go belly up.

I've been on a half dozen different truck/rv forums since 2003. I can't recall more than a handful of "broken" manual trannies during that time. Most of those were from guys that were abusing their trucks (600hp sled pullers,etc)

An average guy,pulling an average RV isn't going to break their manual.

Of course there is the occasional lemon,but the NV5600 and the G56 aren't weak trannies. The G56 is used in trucks up to 60,000lbs GVWR.


Posted By: Fisherman on 09/14/10 06:11pm

The newer ones with the G56 have a DMF unless they modified it upon transplant.


Posted By: ib516 on 09/14/10 07:21pm

SWMO wrote:

Well I ran across a 2009 3500, Lariat, DRW with an auto and I bought it. The wife is happy.

Congrats!


Posted By: JIMNLIN on 09/16/10 12:35pm

JustLabs wrote:

RoyJ wrote:



Probably don't happen nearly as often as people toasting their automatic after putting a "chip" on their diesel truck.


It absolutely doesn't happen as often as the autos go belly up.

I've been on a half dozen different truck/rv forums since 2003. I can't recall more than a handful of "broken" manual trannies during that time. Most of those were from guys that were abusing their trucks (600hp sled pullers,etc)

An average guy,pulling an average RV isn't going to break their manual.

Of course there is the occasional lemon,but the NV5600 and the G56 aren't weak trannies. The G56 is used in trucks up to 60,000lbs GVWR.


Yeah, I've been a TDR/DTR member since '03 and the NV5600/G56 has been pretty bullet proof.

I also a member of several LTL hauler webs site. I've seen less issues with these folks pulling 26001 to as much as 38000 lb gross combined with the NV5600 or the G56. One poster that pulled with a 32000 gross combined in the Rockies had issues with the NV5600. Seems the main drive shaft bearing starved for oil on long steep grades. However this wasn't a problem till he reached 140000 miles pulling those kind of weights.

The DMF for GM was a fiasco and probably had much to do with GM dropping the ZF6 manual tranny. Bunch of GM haulers were upset when GM dropped the ZF6.

These big manual trannies are expensive to overhaul, if they ever need it. The verage RVer won't wear one out unless he has poor shifting skills. But with most haulers running several hundred miles on them they sure beat any auto in that area.


"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides


Posted By: Slowmover on 09/16/10 06:39pm

Failures of any sort on these trucks isn't always clear. But I would be surprised NOT to see a relationship to "go fast", be it injectors, clutch life or the rest. I have the New Venture 5600 behind my 305/555 motor. It's slow shifting (if you want -- as I do -- ultimate smoothness), notchety, and a dream to drive as the ratios plus factory engine tuning are so good. (I've nothing agains the G56, never driven one). There's never a problem getting started, and I use all six gears all the time (as Dodge recommends; none of this start in second business). While I'l grant it's not as fast nor as easy to shift as a well-broken in RoadRanger, it sure is great for what it is. I've looked at some of those FULLER conversions, but there's a good deal of work to be done. The NV-5600, even if it did break, is one I'd keep.

The new six speed auto is apparently so good that the day of the manual behind a Cummins in a Dodge may be on it's way out. I've even seen talk of an eight speed. That many gears is tough to beat . . unless I could slip-shift an equivalent manual. Clutching an eight speed is a different proposition! Seven, okay, eight, well . . . (sorta like a 13-speed: yes! 18-speed: No!)

After all it's all about the right gear for the load, the road and the speed. A manual let's me choose the rpms I want. If an auto can do that -- and have excellent manual control -- then it is likely the future.

.


1990 35' SILVER STREAK Sterling, 9k GVWR
2004 DODGE 305/555 ISB, QC SRW LB NV-5600, 9k GVWR
Hensley Arrow; 15-cpm solo, 25-cpm towing


Posted By: dadwolf2 on 09/17/10 12:15pm

philhoey wrote:

Having a standard is a good way to make sure your truck never gets stolen. Most people will look at the 3rd pedal and say 'What is that for?' LOL


Some people might think you are kidding, but it happened to me. It was late at night and three guys stopped in front of the driveway, jumped out of the car, looked inside the truck with a flashlight, saw the 3rd pedal and took off before I could even make a move. Of course I'm just guessing, but I bet they didn't want to steal a manual.

My 5th wheel is right around 11.5k fully loaded and the manual has never had a problem and with the exhaust brake, I just downshift on steep downgrades and never touch the brake pedal.


2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD,4X4,NV5600
2014 Adventurer 86FB


Posted By: Thunder Mountain on 09/15/10 06:50am

I see that this thread has some legs. So, I'll chime in. We are both "shifty" kind of people including the wife's 6 speed BMW. We had a 98.5 24 valve 2500 Dodge with the 5 speed and pulled a couple of heavy fivers. I liked the control if gave me especially with an exhaust brake. We pulled the heavy fiver with our current 2003 Dodge 3500 six speed for four years before upgrading to a motor home. Again loved the control the six speed gave me. Just slip it in granny and ease off on the clutch and you never knew you were towing 16K pounds. Never had any clutch issues or even smelled a hot clutch disc.

After moving up to a MH I kept the 3500 as my winter daily driver since it was paid for. The six speed is especially handy in the snow and ice.

One the negative side. The clutch can get very tiresome in stop and go traffic towing or not. If your truck is going to serve double duty as tow vehicle and daily driver and you drive in traffic or the lady can't handle a stout clutch, get an auto.


2007 HR Endeavor 40'PDQ
2012 Rubicon
2012 Keystone Outback 250RS
2013 Ford F150 FX4 Ecoboost
3 Cats
3 Dogs
2 Arctic Cats
1 Bottle of Jack Daniels


Posted By: surveyorjp on 09/14/10 08:57pm

me2 wrote:




The NV5600 and the G56 are both apt to give trouble with everyday heavy hauling duty. Some Dodge owners have taken to putting Fuller 6 speeds in. Very stout.


I don't know about the G56, but I personally know of (and have driven for thousands of miles myself) a 2001 Ram 3500 cab chassis with the big old nv5600, that is only driven with a heavy load of some sort. No problems with it, and many of those loads are VERY heavy. The owner has it licensed for 26,000 lbs. GVW, and has used about every lb. of that license on several occasions.

But I'm sure there are folks out there who can break a nv5600. They can probably break an anvil as well.


Posted By: beretzs on 09/14/10 09:50pm

I know when I ordered my truck in early 2006, the G56 was still pretty new, since it was a mid year change in 05. Alot of older Dodge folks were pretty hard on the G56, saying it was aluminum cased and a bunch of other naysaying. Well, as time went on and guys really started driving them, they started slowly changing their tunes, cause man, it is a well built tranny, smooth shifting, with excellent gear spacing. I cannot imagine a better tranny for a pickup. I have driven the NV5600, NV4500's and the Ford ZF5's and ZF6's and none of them are as smooth and easy to shift as the G56. I know I am probably a little biased, but it just tows really well. Granted the OD stinks for driving empty, but in reality, I have averaged over 18+ for the life of the truck and when I am pulling, it always seems like getting a load rolling is easy. When my truck and trailer rolls across scales, I am right at 23K Lbs. This is post camping with full tanks and crap. Once I am empty of water, black and grey, I roll along at about 21K. The truck will go as fast as I want. If I set the cruise at 62-65, it takes a huge mountain to pull me out of 6th, but on the downshift, it will keep 55MPH up just about anything I have put it on. Just my thoughts. Getting ready to change the lubes in the axles, tranny, and t-case when I get home. It is easy to service on my own, and only costs me about 150.00 to put premium stuff back in it. Scotty


Posted By: me2 on 09/14/10 06:12pm

Fisherman wrote:

The newer ones with the G56 have a DMF unless they modified it upon transplant.
I put it in.

That is interesting because my ZF6 has a lot of gear rollover noise.

BTW: if its like the Ford DMFs, they don't slip. The clutch plate slips against the flywheel. Slippage has nothing to do with the DMF.


Posted By: me2 on 09/14/10 06:18pm

me2 wrote:

BTW: if its like the Ford DMFs, they don't slip. The clutch plate slips against the flywheel. Slippage has nothing to do with the DMF.
I might be wrong. The Dodge setup might be different.


Posted By: me2 on 09/14/10 05:48pm

I didn't think that Dodge put DMFs behind the Cummins. My F250 has a 2005 3rd gen (325/610) and its a SMF.


Posted By: me2 on 09/16/10 01:05pm

Quote:

The G56 is used in trucks up to 60,000lbs GVWR.

Link please ! The ZF6 is rated to 26,000 by ZF. But yet Ford uses Fuller transmissions in the F650 and larger, even behind the Powerstroke.

IF my ZF6 ever fails I'll be taking a hard look at a Fuller.


Posted By: me2 on 09/16/10 01:07pm

I don't know how people can buy a truck with an auto. I've tried and I just can't make myself do it. You know its going to fail and you can't predict when it does. And its $3K or more when it does. And you have to change oil in the darn thing.

I can shift gears. BTW: My South Bend clutch has significantly reduced pedal effort versus what it was stock. Its like shifting a sports car. Plus the powerband on my 3rd gen Cummins is wide... you can't really put it in the wrong gear. It pulls everywhere.

I really like my ZF. My biggest gripe is that it has gear rollover noise if you lug it.


Posted By: me2 on 09/14/10 05:31pm

FWIW, I love the 2005-2008 Mega cabs with the 6 speed and the 5.9. Nice trucks. I drive a Ford.


The NV5600 and the G56 are both apt to give trouble with everyday heavy hauling duty. Some Dodge owners have taken to putting Fuller 6 speeds in. Very stout.


Posted By: me2 on 09/15/10 03:14am

NV5600 woes.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-powertrain/41978-nv5600-fso6406a-6-speed-fuller.html


Posted By: me2 on 09/16/10 02:36pm

larry barnhart wrote:

me2 wrote:

I don't know how people can buy a truck with an auto. I've tried and I just can't make myself do it. You know its going to fail and you can't predict when it does. And its $3K or more when it does. And you have to change oil in the darn thing.

I can shift gears. BTW: My South Bend clutch has significantly reduced pedal effort versus what it was stock. Its like shifting a sports car. Plus the powerband on my 3rd gen Cummins is wide... you can't really put it in the wrong gear. It pulls everywhere.

I really like my ZF. My biggest gripe is that it has gear rollover noise if you lug it.



If the clutch was changed this seems like it must have cost money so what caused it to break?

chevman


I swapped a 3rd gen Cummins in place of the Powerstroke that was in the truck. That necessitated a clutch change, more or less.

Even if it didn't, its pretty easy and inexpensive to change a clutch.


Posted By: me2 on 09/17/10 03:24pm

I think the future has an automated manual in it, like the Fuller Autoshifts or whatever they are called. It must be terribly difficult to build a torque converter and automatic that will handle 800 ftlbs. Torque converters usually multiply the torque by 30 to 50% when unlocked, so the input shaft could be seeing up to 1200 ftlbs ! That is full size Road Ranger territory.

But I bet the input shaft never sees that. I bet the ECM either downshifts the transmission before the engine gets to peak torque or it locks the TC. On the dyno, the testers have trouble getting the 6.7L Powerstroke or whatever its called to go below 2000 RPM before the ECM downshifts the transmission. That is pretty telling. Why have a high torque engine if it never uses the torque ? If that is the case, its just marketing hype. Which is why I love manual transmissions.

An automated manual would be extremely sweet. I'd go for it in a heart beat. And they are easy to build... just remove the shift lever and replace it with solenoids or air cylinders. The transmission doesn't even need to be synchronized. It can't be far away.


Posted By: JRMora on 09/15/10 02:25am

I typically run 22,500 to 23,000# when towing (combined). I've run coast to coast and all around the lower US with this rig. I'm at 125K miles now. I haven't ever had any problems with the clutch or tranny. I have 3.73's.

I know many hotshotters that run 300-400K miles on their CTD's and only one I know has failed a NV5600.

Juan


2004 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD/4X4/DRW/6 Speed
2005 Cedar Creek 36RLTS

Truck: B&W, Prodigy, Line-X, MBRP, Pac Brake PRXB, Ride Rites, Onboard Air
Trailer: TrailAir, Onan 6500W LP, Dual AC, King Bed, Commercial TA's

My RV Photos

Us: Juan/Lyn/Nick/Quino/Rico (3 Boys!)



Posted By: RoyJ on 09/15/10 10:56pm

larry barnhart wrote:

larry barnhart wrote:

neighbors cousin with an 04 cummins manual just replaced his cluth at 140000. He tows a TT sometimes.
chevman

neighbores cousin just called to say his 6 speed manual was just replaced for $4000.00. So $1200.00 for a new clutch before he left on the trip and now the trannie at $4000.00. 140K on the truck. I don't think this is normal but sometimes stuff happens.
chevman


Probably don't happen nearly as often as people toasting their automatic after putting a "chip" on their diesel truck.


Posted By: Jarlaxle on 09/17/10 07:36pm

Quote:

I think the future has an automated manual in it, like the Fuller Autoshifts or whatever they are called. It must be terribly difficult to build a torque converter and automatic that will handle 800 ftlbs. Torque converters usually multiply the torque by 30 to 50% when unlocked, so the input shaft could be seeing up to 1200 ftlbs ! That is full size Road Ranger territory.

But I bet the input shaft never sees that. I bet the ECM either downshifts the transmission before the engine gets to peak torque or it locks the TC


Actually, I'd bet it doesn't allow full engine power with the TC unlocked...I recall that many semis & MDT's don't get full power in the lower gears to prevent broken axles.


John and Elizabeth (Liz), with 3 nutty cats
My beloved St. Bernard, Marm, lost him 1/2/12
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion


Posted By: john2008 on 09/15/10 07:51pm

philhoey wrote:

Having a standard is a good way to make sure your truck never gets stolen. Most people will look at the 3rd pedal and say 'What is that for?' LOL


Well most people dumb enough to steal at truck anyways.


carraige cameo 37re3
04.5 600 H.O. dodge ram 3500 4x4 DRW CTD
straight pipe w/ 14" magnaflow straight through muffler
2" leveling kit
00 gmc sierra 10" lift 5.3l turbo charged 9 psi front & rear detroit lockers



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