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Topic: Hard Start Capacitor

Posted By: tladams on 09/18/10 07:36pm

OK, so I'm gonna upgrade my capacitor in hopes my Yamaha 2800 watt generator will start the A/C. I've got the Supco 6E to replace it with, just unsure exactly how to swap wires on the existing set up. Here's a photo of what I have now. Does the existing capacitor need to come out, or do I just piggy back it to the existing capacitor?? Hate to fry anything by making a simple mistake!



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Posted By: GHart on 09/18/10 07:57pm

It goes piggyback on the run capacitor. The large round one in your photo. I wire goes on the middle terminal and the other goes on the terminal marked HERM. No wires are detached. Just did mine last week and Yamaha 2800 runs it great.


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Posted By: GHart on 09/18/10 09:41pm

Edit: Yamaha 2400ishd not 2800. Sorry


Posted By: CurtNLA on 09/18/10 11:34pm

I was preparing a topic on this very subject. I was surprised to see it when I sat back down to my computer after performing a myriad of honeydews. OK, I do have some questions.

First of all, I have a Dometic 15K BTU model 59516.531 AC. I have not opened it up yet, but have been having problems with it kicking the circuit breaker after several hours or a couple of days of running. The circuit breaker seems to be OK, but the AC was running on about 108VAC for a few days. I read the article about installing a Supco SPP6 hard start capacitor, so I picked one up at an Air conditioning parts warehouse.

Looking at the schematic of the unit, it appears that there is a run capacitor and a start capacitor. In the reply above, it is simply attached to the run capacitor on the middle terminal and the terminal marked as HERM. That's where the confusion on my part comes in. On the package it states that this unit can be used on all PSC single phase 115V thru 288V AC units from 4,000 to 120,000 BTU. On the back of the package it gives the installation instructions which clearly show it being attached piggyback onto the run capacitor, but the picture of the run capacitor only shows two terminals. It also states that it is to be installed only on PSC units equipped with a run capacitor. Everything I see here clearly indicates that this is an additional item to the run and start capacitors.

This is not the information I get from the web site regarding the installation of this capacitor, which clearly states (and I quote)

Quote:

After the cover is removed, you should see either one or two cylindrical looking parts with several wires running to them. If there are two, then the one that is usually black and totally round (not oval-shaped which is the blower motor run capacitor) is the factory starting capacitor. It should have two wires coming from it. If this is the case, simply disconnect the wires leading from the starting capacitor and remove it. The Supco capacitor will be a direct replacement. Connect the two wires from the new capacitor to where the old capacitor wiring was connected.

Which is which - addition or replacement?

Also, I have read somewhere that the terminals of one of them must be shorted to relieve the unit of residual electricity. Naturally, the power must be removed from the AC unit, but is there any precautions to be taken when connecting the capacitor piggyback or at any other time?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Curt


Posted By: Chris Bryant on 09/19/10 05:50am

To the OP- as GHarts says, piggyback it to the existing capacitor (the larger of the 2).
To Curt- first of all, a better start kit will not take care of your problem- it only helps starting, not running. For your problem I would clean the coils and tighten all of the connections. The SPP6E is a replacement, not an addition.
As to the terminals, you probably have a combination capacitor- basically 2 capacitors in one can. You will hook to the terminals marked C and Herm (or in place of the original start capacitor).


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Posted By: JFG on 09/19/10 07:26am

One of your problems may be that when you run your generator, your converter will draw about 7 amps to charge the batteries. Make sure your batteries are fully charged and try turning your converter off.


Fred



Posted By: tladams on 09/21/10 06:19pm

Chris Bryant wrote:

To the OP- as GHarts says, piggyback it to the existing capacitor (the larger of the 2).
To Curt- first of all, a better start kit will not take care of your problem- it only helps starting, not running. For your problem I would clean the coils and tighten all of the connections. The SPP6E is a replacement, not an addition.
As to the terminals, you probably have a combination capacitor- basically 2 capacitors in one can. You will hook to the terminals marked C and Herm (or in place of the original start capacitor).


Now I'm a little confused. If it's a replacement, and not an addition, how come I'm supposed to 'add' it to mine by piggybacking it to the existing capacitor??


Posted By: CurtNLA on 09/21/10 06:34pm

JFG wrote:

One of your problems may be that when you run your generator, your converter will draw about 7 amps to charge the batteries. Make sure your batteries are fully charged and try turning your converter off.
I was not using my generator during the time I quoted. Evidently, there was too much electrical usage by everyone in the surrounding community, because reading taken at my main panel, my panel in the garage and panel inside the camper was registering in the 108 to 112 volts range. It is now back up to 119 to 121 volts. The generator actually runs the AC better than house current some times.

I am also still cornfused about addition vs replacement. It was my understanding that the SPP6 when added would make the AC easier to start, whether using house current or generator. If it is a simple replacement of what is already there, the only advantage I see is that it is a new unit vs an old one.

Curt


Posted By: Macrosill on 09/21/10 07:40pm

I just did this mod today. I replaced the old start capacitor with the SPP6. I have a Coleman Mach 3 a/c, it is 19 years old. I checked the schematic and simply replaced the old with the new.

Your unit looks new, from the cleanliness in the picture. Can you check the schematic?

From my understanding, if you do not have a separate start capacitor now then you would piggyback the SPP6 off the run capacitor, the oval one.


Thanks,
Brian

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Posted By: tladams on 09/21/10 08:20pm

Macrosill wrote:

I just did this mod today. I replaced the old start capacitor with the SPP6. I have a Coleman Mach 3 a/c, it is 19 years old. I checked the schematic and simply replaced the old with the new.

Your unit looks new, from the cleanliness in the picture. Can you check the schematic?

From my understanding, if you do not have a separate start capacitor now then you would piggyback the SPP6 off the run capacitor, the oval one.


You are correct, it is a new HTT, just trying to get the A/C to start off of a 2800W generator. Others are running their's off 2000W & 2400W, so why shouldn't my 2800W run mine?
I'll get a pic of the schematic later this week and post it. I'm not fluent in electrical schematics, so I'll have to post a pic for someone to interpret for me!!


Posted By: smkettner on 09/21/10 08:36pm

tladams wrote:

Chris Bryant wrote:

To the OP- as GHarts says, piggyback it to the existing capacitor (the larger of the 2).
To Curt- first of all, a better start kit will not take care of your problem- it only helps starting, not running. For your problem I would clean the coils and tighten all of the connections. The SPP6E is a replacement, not an addition.
As to the terminals, you probably have a combination capacitor- basically 2 capacitors in one can. You will hook to the terminals marked C and Herm (or in place of the original start capacitor).


Now I'm a little confused. If it's a replacement, and not an addition, how come I'm supposed to 'add' it to mine by piggybacking it to the existing capacitor??

Trust Chris and just read the first line to the OP (that is you)


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Posted By: rkentzel on 09/22/10 07:05pm

Looks to me you dont have a start cap both are run caps one for herm and the smaller one for the blower fan. You would only use the bigger one for the hardstart one wire to each side of the cap. I doubt they are labeld c and herm if it was a dual run cap then it would be labeld c- for common h- for hermetic and f- for fan. Look at the diagrham on the label of the hardstart not that difficult. If it had a start cap (round black plastic) it would be wired with a relay and in that case you would remove those componets and just use the hardstart.


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Posted By: tladams on 09/27/10 02:15pm

smkettner wrote:


Trust Chris and just read the first line to the OP (that is you)


So, I had an off day today and followed Chris's advice. Just piggy backed it off the other capacitor and now the generator starts the A/C with no problem!! Life is good. This Yamaha 2800W generator is my deer camp generator, so I gotta take it back for the upcoming season. Now, I'm wondering how small a generator can I go and still run the A/C?? I see lot's of folks using the 2400W Yamaha to run their A/C, so thinking about going that route. I generally don't need a generator to run the A/C, since where we camp usually has full hookups, but I want it to work in case a hurricane hits the Gulf Coast and I need to live in the TT for a week, or so.

Thanks for all the help!!
Tim


Posted By: MyakkaTT on 09/27/10 06:13pm

My yamaha 2400 runs our carrier 13.5 with no problems, I did install start cap just ot make it even easy on the gen. esp. since we cam palot in the Florida heat..


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