CardinalRule
Gimli, Manitoba (Summer) Yuma, Arizona (Winter)
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toban wrote:How many people here who have answered my post have actually seen and read the closer connection form? I'm assuming from some reactions, there are alot of assumptions on the pupose of the form without reading it first. They are basic questions but I feel it's worth filing this than wonder what to do if I am picked and approached in the future. I carry the previous years forms with me when I'm crossing the border also.
Oh well, I thought I would just let my fellow snowbirds know with a heads up on the situation.
Toban
We have seen it and I agree the questions are basic. I don't feel the need to file for reasons stated by other in this thread. I'm sure you have given other food for thought and thank you for sharing the info and your concerns.
Dave
I RV, I Golf - Therefore I Am.
'08 F350 SD CC 6.4L
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Gruffy
monominto mb ca
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Been there ... read it. It says quite plainly "You or the IRS may determine " or words to that effect. It gives a list of criteria to prove a closer connection to Canada. I meet them all.
I "determined" on my own and now carry the documents to prove it, such things as proof I paid income tax, own property and have children. So far it's never been a problem
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Gruffy
monominto mb ca
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By the way, there have been commercial tax preparers out waving this form which they will fill in and file for a fee. A way to scare people and drum up business??? Perhaps.
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Don8ch
Mississauga, Ontario
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This was the first year that my wife and I were required to file since we retired in 2008 and did our 1st snowbirding that winter. The form is SIMPLE and there is no reason not to file it. The Americans make it so easy for Canadians to come and enjoy extended stays with very little red tape. This is the red tape. I would much rather fill out this form than have to apply for an extended stay visa or other, as they call it, alien admission requirement.
Don
2009 Newmar Grand Star
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Gruffy
monominto mb ca
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Don8ch wrote:This was the first year that my wife and I were required to file since we retired in 2008 and did our 1st snowbirding that winter. The form is SIMPLE and there is no reason not to file it. The Americans make it so easy for Canadians to come and enjoy extended stays with very little red tape. This is the red tape. I would much rather fill out this form than have to apply for an extended stay visa or other, as they call it, alien admission requirement.
Don
So Don, the question is who told you you were required to file it? Did the IRS knock on your door?? or did you just decide to do it 'cause?
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toban
Canada
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Don8ch:
I think you are wasting your time with an answer.
Let's just drop the subject.
Toban
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bstark
Ontario, Canada
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toban wrote:Don8ch:
I think you are wasting your time with an answer.
Let's just drop the subject.
Toban
Your info is correct but that's as far as it goes. No need to feel set upon because some disagree with the "requirement" to file.
We all have a choice and will choose to file or not based on our degree of exposure to the requirements laid out by the IRS.
If; your days in the U.S. fall within the limits set out by their formulae, If you're not maintaining investments or bank accounts inthe amounts that put you in the "earned income" bracket, if you're not availing yourself of an opportunity to work and be reimbursed through a "taxable perk". If you have the forsight to keep the answers to the questions asked in the form such as current copy of your Canadian Tax return, bank accounts pass books etc.. Proof of home ownership through utilities bills, property tax receipts etc.. Any one of these questions may also be asked of you regardless of your filing the 8840. The 8840 is a declaration only, and does not satisfy any requirement for proof of it's contents, in much the same manner as your declaration that you are a Canadian citizen may require the visible proof of a passport or even a driver's license to verify if requested.
Merely filling out the form 8840 DOES NOT exempt you from being required to provide documented proof of any or all of the questions contained within, if requested to provide it. Once the question gets asked of you; merely showing them your copies of the 8840 will not change a thing and that is from personal experience.
I now carry all of these documents and then some.
* This post was
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edited 08/09/11 10:05am by bstark *
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Dave A
Espanola, ON
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Hi All
I looked at close connection form a few years back and didn't fill in as we spend 5 months a year in Texas so are over formula - last year + 1/3 year before + 1/6 year before that - 150+50+25. We earn no income in US - won't even allow our US bank to pay any interest on account. Realize we are taking a risk but figured filling in form with an overage on days allowed would be a for sure red flag. Anyone fill in form with more than 182 days reported??
We'll see....
Dave
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toban
Canada
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99% of the people don't fill them out because they don't think it's an issue. As I said, I've been told by my accountant of 2 of his clients being approached and the fun begins.
Toban
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bstark
Ontario, Canada
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toban wrote:99% of the people don't fill them out because they don't think it's an issue. As I said, I've been told by my accountant of 2 of his clients being approached and the fun begins.
Toban
As I tried very diplomaticly to point out: the same fun would have begun had they filed the 8840 and someone in the U.S. beauraucracy deemed it necessary to verify even one item on that 8840.
This can happen at the border crossing regardless if you have your current 8840 in hand along with past copies to prove you've been diligent in filing them. They only need to question one of the queries on the form and you're in for a full court press regardless of those forms. They are a declaration onlyand not acceptable proof of the answers to the questions contained therein.
you should therefore carry all of the documentation you would need to satisfy the answers to what is contained on the form or the fun can begin regardless.
ANY declaration made does NOT prevent the requirement of proof should they request it.
Personal experience: Diligently filled out the 8840. Crossing at Sarnia Port Huron, winter of 07/08 during routine secondary inspection regarding two sets of golf clubs in zippered covers was casually asked amounts in U.S. bank accounts and from there the full court press over ALL those questions contained on the 8840 began and ended ONLY because I could satisfy them with CANADIAN bank account info, house utility bills, income tax statement which was for the previous year and I had to actually explain to them that current one would not be available until I filed the following May. They were ultimately satisfied with all of my info.
I asked them the value of filling out the 8840 IF I was going to be put at risk of all of that info being required anyway. ANSWER: "Form 8840 is only a declaration and may be queried at any time; this was your lucky day!" AMEN!
Now toban, please understand, I am not trying to talk people out of the form 8840 but merely suggesting it is not the panacea your accountant is leading you to believe it is. Ask him this question; regardless of filling out form 8840 may I be requested to provide proof of any or all of the answers to the questions contained within AT ANY TIME? His answer should begin with "of course" and if it then continues with a "but" tell him to take a hike and fill the thing out or don't, but not based on his assertion it will prevent anything.
I have not filled out the 8840 since that crossing 07/08 and instead; carry all of the info required to satisfy the questions contained therein.
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