Jerry9n wrote: As far as millions of Chinese tires, I cannot comment, but what I can comment on is a sample size of the four that were on my trailer. Facts: 1. They were Duros made in China 2. They were on my trailer 8 months 3. They were covered 4. By production codes they were all less than a year old 5. They had less than 3,000 miles.
Here is what led me not to continue using them or to by replacements:
Are they representative of all Chinese or Duro tires? I don't know but four out of four would lead me not to go down that road again.
IMHO
It is beyond any form of intelligent comprehension that anyone could deny that a very large % of Chinese tires cause problems. Unless one wants to be argumentive to create conflict to get the thread closed..
Yes that seems to be your agenda.
Show me that data to back up your claim that a very large % of chinese tires cause problems. Thats right YOU CANT. I cant prove any numbers either. Therefore you are right it is beyond intelligent comprehension (you seem to lack it) that you can deny the only reason you hear about it the sheer numbers. For you Dean that means there is a lot of them.
As far as I can tell there are currently only TWO ST tires NOT made in China; Carlisle bias ply and Maxxiss. Every other ST sold and those installed on new trailers are from china. That has to be in the tens of thousands if not more. Even a person such as you should be able to realize this.
Sorry but I don't see reports to back anything up other than the majority of ST tires come from china. Now listen carefully Dean so even you can understand. That means the majority of reports will be about them. I have yeat to see trailers all over the side of the road with flats. Once again a few reports on the internet in no way is every chinese tire out there.
Now Dean that you are once again seeking out my posts to comment on on for no other reason than to do what you accuse me of will you follow your usuall pattern and choose yet another screen mame soon? How many is it now? 6? 7?
PS mr howaboutnow, how's you black tank holding up?
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RandACamping, I do not understand your fierce defense of China tires. When someone like Jerry posts proof of 4 out of 4 Duro failures your response is my Duros never had a problem.
I'm glad you have personally never had a tire problem but you are denying there is a problem. Either you have not read much on the China ST tire problem or you just prefer to keep your head buried in the sand.
2011 F250 Super Cab Lariat 6.2 373 FX4 Short Box 4" BDS, 35" Toyos, TorkLift, 16.5K Warn, Locked & Loaded
2007 SunLite Pop Up
RandACamping - you seem like such a happy person with a remarkably positive outlook on life. Your comments are always pleasant and kind. I just wanted to know - what is your secret?
~DJ~ wrote: RandACamping, I do not understand your fierce defense of China tires. When someone like Jerry posts proof of 4 out of 4 Duro failures your response is my Duros never had a problem.
I'm glad you have personally never had a tire problem but you are denying there is a problem. Either you have not read much on the China ST tire problem or you just prefer to keep your head buried in the sand.
Not denying anything...Is there a problem, yes. Is it the epideminc that this forum would have you to believe, NO. I see no proof of a tire problem anywhere. The evidence is anecdotal at best. Show me the proof.
Proof being number sold versus failures not caused by user neglect. I will be waiting.
If the tires were made on the moon everyone would condeming those moon made tires for all the same reasons and it would be blown way out of proportion for all the same reasons.
isuee94 wrote: RandACamping - you seem like such a happy person with a remarkably positive outlook on life. Your comments are always pleasant and kind. I just wanted to know - what is your secret?
To the OP.
I have been towing for over 30 years and have had 1 blowout in my life. I "think" that was caused by a nail and low pressure and that caused the boom.
I run some very cheap bias ply on my trailer. Always broke most of the rules. Always ran 75MPH and again never had any problems.
Many years ago a tire guy came out to my trailer and looked at my tires and said; "do you know how old your tires are?" I said I had no idea? He said shouting "this one is 15 years old!" I calmly said "O must be a good one hu?"
The look on the guys face was pricless!!!
I will say that I don't get very good wear on some of them. I call them butter tires. I don't defend China tires. If you don't want the run them, don't run them.
Wish I lived near you, I would take them hearbeat and run them until the cord shows. Or until they blew and took my skirting out.
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
I have not been able to find and believe this information is not available especially for a nitch tire market like ST or lawn tractor tires…
There is no hard count for failures, and there is no way of knowing how many failures go unreported and the companies claims of failure rates are apparently considered proprietary and not for public consumption…
I doubt there is a hard count of how many failures were due to road hazard, over inflation, or under inflation… nor is there a hard count on owner neglect… failure tire investigation are done primarily by the companies for their own evaluation and use or for their defense… information by industry trade groups may collect this information for use by other members, and all claim the overwhelming majority are not the fault of the tire…
While I do believe this to be true and tire that can not be proven to be the fault of the tire I suspect gets counted as a failure caused by other reasons… I have only found claims that the failure rate for tires to be at about .5% I do believe this claim is for passenger carrying tires and does not include ST tires, ATV tires, or wheel barrow tires and the like…
Only by a slip of the tongue from a tire mfg employee did I hear the failure rate of the ST tire was 1.0%… that sounds reasonable to me when all things are considered and put another way, the ST tire has twice the failure rate of other tires and it doesn’t sound as good…
But those numbers mean little to us in a lot of ways because it doesn’t include all tire failures, only those that have placed a claim against the mfg for the failure… if all failures were counted I believe you would see a very much higher failure rate…
For the ST tire the difference might be much higher because the ST tire warranty is shorter… also the adjustment amount can be lower due to the shallow tread depth of the tire to begin with, all depressing the number of claims being made to start with…
Duro tires are in a class by themselves, using them is like playing Russian roulette IMO… they are just no worth the gamble because the pay off for being lucky compared to the risk of having a failure is to great…
You have to separate the china mfg issue from the product issue even though both may be a issue…
The china issue… I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that products mfg there have added risk no matter who the mfg is and to insure any quality there requires a major investment in the facilities and people with everything and I mean everything being in house and under control of a quality minded company… this is expensive and remember why these companies located there to begin with… COST… really it takes deep pockets to do this and with high transportation cost many won’t or can’t do it…
Cultural and political differences might ease environmental issues but almost ensure these quality issues…
Even companies that pull it off have untold problems controlling their quality because of the cultural issues that may in time change… but what is changing faster are as their economy expands and employment is so easy to find are bringing demands for better work rules, environment, and wages…
Importers without their own mfg plants are at the mercy of who ever makes product for them… shipping delays, and having to throw out a large percentage of shipments make meeting delivery deadlines impossible without over buying and wearhousing much more product…
So as some say you can buy a quality product from china but it may in fact be costing as much or more than if it were made right here when its all said and done… then there is always that seed of doubt, one that has been earned and one that is justified on any products made there…
Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet
JJBIRISH if this was 1955 and China was making 55 Chevy's I would agree with your post.
It's not and they arn't.
My point is a lot of products now days are not even touched by human hands. CNC mills and lathes, welding robots, painting robots, assembly robots, computer measurement robots packaging robots...........on and on it goes.
Like the argument that "I would never buy a 6.7 Ford diesel" because it's made in Mexico.
It's silly, this isn't 1955 were the machinest had to know how much to take off of a block surface or how to do a valve job by hand. Now days the robot sets the block in the mill and the operator pushes the button and off it goes, perfect every time.
I think a lot of people think that there is a bunch of Chineese workers that come to work in the Duro plant in One Hung Low China and hand wrap rubber and belts around a round form to make a tire. This is just not the case; at least in 2011 it's not. Maybe in 1955 or even 1990, but not now.
I can assure you that most US companies know exactly what product they recieve when it comes in from off shore. If they design and order junk they will get junk. If they design and order a quality tire they will recieve such; no matter what country it comes from.
Turtle n Peeps wrote: JJBIRISH if this was 1955 and China was making 55 Chevy's I would agree with your post.
It's not and they arn't.
My point is a lot of products now days are not even touched by human hands. CNC mills and lathes, welding robots, painting robots, assembly robots, computer measurement robots packaging robots...........on and on it goes.
Like the argument that "I would never buy a 6.7 Ford diesel" because it's made in Mexico.
It's silly, this isn't 1955 were the machinest had to know how much to take off of a block surface or how to do a valve job by hand. Now days the robot sets the block in the mill and the operator pushes the button and off it goes, perfect every time.
I think a lot of people think that there is a bunch of Chineese workers that come to work in the Duro plant in One Hung Low China and hand wrap rubber and belts around a round form to make a tire. This is just not the case; at least in 2011 it's not. Maybe in 1955 or even 1990, but not now.
I can assure you that most US companies know exactly what product they recieve when it comes in from off shore. If they design and order junk they will get junk. If they design and order a quality tire they will recieve such; no matter what country it comes from.
This week the Coleman Co. said it is moving production of its 16-quart wheeled plastic coolers to Wichita from China.
In a recent call with analysts, Martin Franklin, CEO of Coleman's parent, Jarden Corp., said he sees the end of the 30-year one-way outflow of manufacturing from the U.S. to China. Rising costs in China are changing the cost-benefit calculation enough for them to bring production of some goods from China back to North America.
Snip
Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:04 AM
SALEM — An Oregon apparel company cites inflation and quality control problems as two of the reasons it's moving its manufacturing out of China and back to the United States.
Snip
Faced with rising costs, General Electric is moving production of its new energy-efficient water heater halfway around the world. The country it's leaving? China. The one it's bringing 400 jobs and a newly renovated factory? The United States
Snip
U.S. manufacturers — including giants such as General Electric (GE), NCR (NCR) and Caterpillar (CAT)— are turning the seemingly inexorable offshoring movement on its head, bringing some production to the U.S. from far-flung locations such as China. Others that were buying components overseas are switching to U.S. suppliers.
Snip
There are myriad reasons for the shifts, often called "onshoring" or "reshoring." Chinese wages and shipping costs have risen sharply in the past few years while U.S. salaries have stayed flat, or in some cases, fallen in the recession. Meanwhile, U.S. manufacturers have been frustrated by the sometimes poor quality of goods made by foreign contractors, theft of their intellectual property and long product-delivery cycles that make them less responsive to customer demand.
You are right this is not 1950, it is now, and there is a lot of reasons for disenchantment with china manufacturing…
Wages, quality, and supply chain complaints abound and are growing not shrinking…
Quality problems and china go hand in hand, now add inflation and a annual 17% wage increases to the quality and supply chain problems to the mix makes imports from there still problematic for the US consumer and the US importers and mfg’s…
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Or until they blew and took my skirting out. 
