Cloud Dancer wrote: When/where you say "square" or "squared up" IMO you need to clarify what you mean. The word "square' has a different meaning than the word "level".
Also, whenever you use the term "square up" it implies that the chassis frame and/or the big holes in the wall (where the slide fits into the wall) are not square.
Generally, to check for square you use a calibrated square, and to check for level you use a calibrated level.
The common way of achieving the 'out of square' condition in the slide-out hole, is to impart a twist force on the overall structure when the hole is not reinforced by the slide-out being in the transient mode.
Not much on semantics I guess. The point is the potential for the coach to be twisted (to whatever degree) on arrival at the campsite, prior to levelimg, is many times greater than after leveling.
The fact the slide was installed while the chassis was unsupported isn't relevant.
"The point is the potential for the coach to be twisted (to whatever degree) on arrival at the campsite, prior to levelimg, is many times greater than after leveling."
Do you believe your statement above is true because of the type of levelers that you have, or do you believe that it's true regardless of which levelers you have?
I'm curious to know the explanation because this certainly is not the case with my equipment.
Willie & Betty Sue
Miko & Sparky
2003 41 ft Dutch Star Diesel Pusher/Spartan
Floorplan 4010
Blazer toad & Ranger bassboat
the only problem that extending your rooms while unlevel is potential damage to the seals. it is like sliding a square box out of an unsquare hole. the room wall drags on the seals. and the potential damage depends on how much clearance you have between the side of the room and the wall.
i have worked on hwh product since 1973, and as an employee and the only traveling technical service rep for hwh, i have found that it never hurts to level first and then extend your slides.
the mfg manuals do some times say otherwise. but if someone can tell me how it hurts to level first, lets hear it. i dont consider myself an expert, but i do know who to consult on questions like this, and i stand by my original post.
hwh has made 3 point leveling systems, like the ones on safari's and beavers, but they dont do the job like the 4 point systems. its just a way to cut the price down a little.
when you have air suspension, even when unlevel, you are still sitting on air bags controlled by the ride height valves. it will not cause a problem to extend or not extend your rooms, since the frame is not twisted to the point of damaging your seals.
the only time you run into problems with really twisted frames is with jacks. and yes, there are units out there with air leveling and jacks, so you can have two sets of instructions.
use a little common sense, and if you feel the coach is that much out of level, follow the mfg instruction. or move to another spot.
azpete wrote: the only problem that extending your rooms while unlevel is potential damage to the seals. it is like sliding a square box out of an unsquare hole. the room wall drags on the seals. and the potential damage depends on how much clearance you have between the side of the room and the wall.
i have worked on hwh product since 1973, and as an employee and the only traveling technical service rep for hwh, i have found that it never hurts to level first and then extend your slides.
the mfg manuals do some times say otherwise. but if someone can tell me how it hurts to level first, lets hear it. i dont consider myself an expert, but i do know who to consult on questions like this, and i stand by my original post.
hwh has made 3 point leveling systems, like the ones on safari's and beavers, but they dont do the job like the 4 point systems. its just a way to cut the price down a little.
when you have air suspension, even when unlevel, you are still sitting on air bags controlled by the ride height valves. it will not cause a problem to extend or not extend your rooms, since the frame is not twisted to the point of damaging your seals.
the only time you run into problems with really twisted frames is with jacks. and yes, there are units out there with air leveling and jacks, so you can have two sets of instructions.
use a little common sense, and if you feel the coach is that much out of level, follow the mfg instruction. or move to another spot.
This discussion was running off a cliff or going no where as expected.
Now you dare to insert EXPERIENCE, logic and reason into the discussion. How is everyone to respond?
How can you do this to us?
OK I have a side at least I view as humorous.
I think people should follow manufacturers instructions, or follow practical experience, or go buy a MH with 4 point leveling, and if you can get it get air leveling in addition to the jacks.
my dad used to say "common sense is an uncommon thing". at the time, i thought thats just plain dumb. of course i didnt tell him.
now that im older, i find myself quoting him more and more.
azpete wrote: the only problem that extending your rooms while unlevel is potential damage to the seals. it is like sliding a square box out of an unsquare hole. the room wall drags on the seals. and the potential damage depends on how much clearance you have between the side of the room and the wall.
i have worked on hwh product since 1973, and as an employee and the only traveling technical service rep for hwh, i have found that it never hurts to level first and then extend your slides.
the mfg manuals do some times say otherwise. but if someone can tell me how it hurts to level first, lets hear it. i dont consider myself an expert, but i do know who to consult on questions like this, and i stand by my original post.
hwh has made 3 point leveling systems, like the ones on safari's and beavers, but they dont do the job like the 4 point systems. its just a way to cut the price down a little.
when you have air suspension, even when unlevel, you are still sitting on air bags controlled by the ride height valves. it will not cause a problem to extend or not extend your rooms, since the frame is not twisted to the point of damaging your seals.
the only time you run into problems with really twisted frames is with jacks. and yes, there are units out there with air leveling and jacks, so you can have two sets of instructions.
use a little common sense, and if you feel the coach is that much out of level, follow the mfg instruction. or move to another spot.
This discussion was running off a cliff or going no where as expected.
Now you dare to insert EXPERIENCE, logic and reason into the discussion. How is everyone to respond?
How can you do this to us?
OK I have a side at least I view as humorous.
I think people should follow manufacturers instructions, or follow practical experience, or go buy a MH with 4 point leveling, and if you can get it get air leveling in addition to the jacks.
azpete wrote: the only problem that extending your rooms while unlevel is potential damage to the seals. it is like sliding a square box out of an unsquare hole. the room wall drags on the seals. and the potential damage depends on how much clearance you have between the side of the room and the wall.
i have worked on hwh product since 1973, and as an employee and the only traveling technical service rep for hwh, i have found that it never hurts to level first and then extend your slides.
the mfg manuals do some times say otherwise. but if someone can tell me how it hurts to level first, lets hear it. i dont consider myself an expert, but i do know who to consult on questions like this, and i stand by my original post.
hwh has made 3 point leveling systems, like the ones on safari's and beavers, but they dont do the job like the 4 point systems. its just a way to cut the price down a little.
when you have air suspension, even when unlevel, you are still sitting on air bags controlled by the ride height valves. it will not cause a problem to extend or not extend your rooms, since the frame is not twisted to the point of damaging your seals.
the only time you run into problems with really twisted frames is with jacks. and yes, there are units out there with air leveling and jacks, so you can have two sets of instructions.
use a little common sense, and if you feel the coach is that much out of level, follow the mfg instruction. or move to another spot.
This discussion was running off a cliff or going no where as expected.
Now you dare to insert EXPERIENCE, logic and reason into the discussion. How is everyone to respond?
How can you do this to us?
OK I have a side at least I view as humorous.
I think people should follow manufacturers instructions, or follow practical experience, or go buy a MH with 4 point leveling, and if you can get it get air leveling in addition to the jacks.
Anybody know which MHs come with HWH Bi-Axis AND air leveling?
bluebirds, some newmars like essex, some foretravels. ive seen a couple of newells as well. it is an option on many high line coachs.
its not common, but has been an option for years. i think the hewmar essex is the newest one ive seen it on. i saw the combination on a veranda unit also. but its been 2 or 3 years ago.
Do you believe your statement above is true because of the type of levelers that you have, or do you believe that it's true regardless of which levelers you have?
I'm curious to know the explanation because this certainly is not the case with my equipment.
Why are you trying to complicate the issue with what jacks are used? Are you telling me that if you are on a site that is twisting your coach that you are unable to untwist it in the leveling process?
Second part of the problem. Are you telling me that you're extending your slide knowing the coach is twisted? Would you encourage others do that as well?
These points all moot on a flat level site, right? Those are not the ones I'm thinking of....
Do you believe your statement above is true because of the type of levelers that you have, or do you believe that it's true regardless of which levelers you have?
I'm curious to know the explanation because this certainly is not the case with my equipment.
Why are you trying to complicate the issue with what jacks are used? Are you telling me that if you are on a site that is twisting your coach that you are unable to untwist it in the leveling process?
Second part of the problem. Are you telling me that you're extending your slide knowing the coach is twisted? Would you encourage others do that as well?
These points all moot on a flat level site, right? Those are not the ones I'm thinking of....
If you read my posts on this thread you will see that I've answered your questions. But, I can't find where you answered my question. I didn't think my question to you was complicated, is that what it is?
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