Quote: I assume there is a substantial qualitative difference. What I am not clear on is where that difference is and when it is relevant,
....again, I've never seen a Palomino being built at the factory, however here are some major components and relative costs (ratios) found in the Outfitter (and I can only speak to our Outfitter, manufactured in mid 2005):
-Our Outfitter utilizes XPS extruded high-end high-compression closed-cell polystyrene in its bonded wall/shell structure juxtaposed with the RV industry "bead-board" white insulation: cost difference is in the + $80% ~ 120% range; structural properties: deflection exponentially better than bead-board; moisture vapor retarding characteristics: exponentially higher;
-Our FRP panels are far thicker and heavier than the RV industry standard FRP, but most importantly our FRP panels have no organically degradable fiber backing on them. Cost difference: + $400% more than conventional RV Lauan-backed FRP panels; deflection and impact rating much, much better; chances of delaminating: exponentially lower, because our non-backed FRP panels (our unit was manufactured in 2005) utilize non water soluble glue in the structural wall bonding process;
-Our unit has an aluminum wall, tub and roof structure (tub is marine ply bonded & screwed to aluminum framing), which makes it far and away more expensive to manufacture than a softwood stapled-together shell structure;
-Our roof is domed, so that rains will more quickly shed and not pool up there. Much more expensive to accomplish this in design and manufacture;
-our softwall is thick double-walled Weblon with an insulating layer between (found on the fly bridge {or, flying-bridge} of many expensive ocean-going yachts), and is multi-times more expensive than single woven sheet coated canvas.
All the above make our camper far and away more durable than a pop-up not implementing said, and far, far more expensive to build.
So, concluding, these are some of the criteria one may want to consider entre the vast (and I mean vast) differences in prices between the myriad pop-up truck camper models out there on the market.
Good luck, and enjoy your research/shopping!
Silver-
I've always been curious what was different about the Outfitters.
I've been following this string with interst as we bought a (I believe) cheaper, low end unit, a Sunlite Apachie, just to see how we would like it as 1st timers to truck camping without spending much.
To date we haven't used it enough to judge features and quality, but, coming from a tent, even the low end camper is fastly more comfortable, warmer, dryer, softer bed, quicker set up, everthing better, over the tent.
Like Dan, I am not sure how much I will be using my first pop-up. That tends me to a cheaper model to start. The fact that in my case the EZ Lite is built near San Diego where I live 1/2 time, so I figure I can get problems readily addressed. That said, I might go for a, say, used Hallmark, but they are hard to find. Storage may be better in them.
To follow uo my own post, I just took a look at the Hallmark site. There is just a lot more to them, from storage, to battery meters, etc. How much one needs those extras is a question. You get what you pay for, but you don't want to buy something you don't use.
diver110 wrote: To follow uo my own post, I just took a look at the Hallmark site. There is just a lot more to them, from storage, to battery meters, etc. How much one needs those extras is a question. You get what you pay for, but you don't want to buy something you don't use.
IMHO, as i have first hand experience,the single biggest issue with the Palomino/Starcraft TC is the design of the back door,they will absolutely leak. if it wasn't for this single issue one could make out pretty good with these entry level units with a few inexpensive upgrades. for me the leaky door was a deal breaker,hence it has a new home.other entry level units(Sunlite etc)don't have this issue and would be ok for short trips in warm weather if you have no desire for the latest/greatest in ammenities.
diver110 wrote: To follow uo my own post, I just took a look at the Hallmark site. There is just a lot more to them, from storage, to battery meters, etc. How much one needs those extras is a question. You get what you pay for, but you don't want to buy something you don't use.
IMHO, as i have first hand experience,the single biggest issue with the Palomino/Starcraft TC is the design of the back door,they will absolutely leak. if it wasn't for this single issue one could make out pretty good with these entry level units with a few inexpensive upgrades. for me the leaky door was a deal breaker,hence it has a new home.other entry level units(Sunlite etc)don't have this issue and would be ok for short trips in warm weather if you have no desire for the latest/greatest in ammenities.
Where and when would you not go in a Sunlite etc and why?
diver110 wrote: To follow uo my own post, I just took a look at the Hallmark site. There is just a lot more to them, from storage, to battery meters, etc. How much one needs those extras is a question. You get what you pay for, but you don't want to buy something you don't use.
IMHO, as i have first hand experience,the single biggest issue with the Palomino/Starcraft TC is the design of the back door,they will absolutely leak. if it wasn't for this single issue one could make out pretty good with these entry level units with a few inexpensive upgrades. for me the leaky door was a deal breaker,hence it has a new home.other entry level units(Sunlite etc)don't have this issue and would be ok for short trips in warm weather if you have no desire for the latest/greatest in ammenities.
Where and when would you not go in a Sunlite etc and why?
i (key word I) would prolly stay away from extremely cold areas and extended trips of say 30 days or more.reasons being that there will be issues like heating the pop up,possible frozen water lines and there would be comfort issues for me after 30 days as i would go thru creature comforts withdrawal. YMMV. in summary i would go anywhere in a Sunlight (and did) just not in the extreme cold and no longer than 30 days.
I winter camped in my old Northstar and was very comfortable. You can buy/make arctic kits for the canvas. You will need to do extra insulating in any TC, pop up or not, for extreme cold weather.
Here is 4 days of 25 below zero last New Year's weekend.
2011 F250 Super Cab Lariat 6.2 373 FX4 Short Box 4" BDS, 35" Toyos, TorkLift, 16.5K Warn, Locked & Loaded
2007 SunLite Pop Up
~DJ~ wrote: I winter camped in my old Northstar and was very comfortable. You can buy/make arctic kits for the canvas. You will need to do extra insulating in any TC, pop up or not, for extreme cold weather.
Here is 4 days of 25 below zero last New Year's weekend.
Not saying it can't or has not been done but IIRC you weren't very comfortable on that trip .
Murgatroid wrote: The big drawback with that is that there is nothing that ties the side of the camper together in the back.
Frankly, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem. The cabinets and the bathroom partition add a tremendous amount of strength and rigidity to the structure.
When you're transporting the camper, the roof is down, completing the box. You don't drive around with the roof raised anyway.
2002 Chevy 3500 DRW 8.1L/Allison
2000 Palomino B1500
...and the reason why I need a DRW to haul a Palomino:
2004 United 7x14 tandem axle enclosed toy trailer
2011 PJ 8x20 7-ton deckover equipment trailer
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